Public Talk 4, Santa Monica, California, 8 March 1970

[Identification: This is the fourth in a series of public talks given by Mr J. Krishnamurti in Santa Monica, California, on March the eighth 1970.]{.mark}

**[KFA audio has a different initial registration, by an American announcer, as follows:** The fourth public talk by J. Krishnamurti Santa Monica California March 8th 1970**]**

Krishnamurti: This is the last talk, at least here. We said we would talk about religion and meditation this evening. It is really quite a complex subject and needs a great deal of patience, hesitant enquiry, never assuming anything, never accepting or believing anything.

You know, man has always sought something more than the daily living, with its pain, pleasure, sorrow and all the rest of it. He wants to find something more permanent, and in his search for this unnameable thing he has built temples, churches, mosques. He has done so many extraordinary things in the name of religion — destroyed people, had many wars, for which religions are responsible, they have tortured people, burned them, destroyed them, for belief was more important than truth, dogma much more vital than the direct perception. And when belief becomes all-important then you are willing to sacrifice everything for that, whether that belief is real, has any validity, any truth, doesn’t matter as long as it gave you comfort, security, a sense of permanency. So man throughout history, at least recorded history, and before, has always sought this out, hoping to find it. But before he began to search he must have a basis, a foundation for his search, because it’s very easy if you seek something, to find it.

In seeking, there are several processes involved, not only your desire and the hope of recognition of what you find to be the truth, and the motive behind that search — if there is a motive of fear, if there is a motive of escape, a longing, a deep desire for comfort, security then you will inevitably find something that will gratify you. It may be the most absurd belief, absurd discovery, but as long as it is satisfactory, as long as it is completely comforting, whatever the illusion be, however ridiculous it is, one clings to it. So there is a great danger in those who are seeking to find, to search out. And if there is fear of any kind, hidden or open, then again search becomes an evasion, a flight from the actual. And if in the search you discover something, that discovery is based on recognition — you must recognise it otherwise it has no value. And recognition, if you observe, is based on past memory, something that you have already known, otherwise you cannot possibly recognise. All these are involved in this everlasting search for what one considers to be the truth, for something that is beyond the measure of the mind.

But religion, in the accepted sense of that word, has now become a matter of propaganda, a matter of vested interest, with great property, with great hierarchical, bureaucratic system of spirituality, a religion which has become a matter of dogma, belief and ritual, a religion which has totally divorced from daily living. You may believe in God or you may not believe in God, but it has very little meaning in daily life where you cheat, you butcher, you destroy, you are ambitious, greedy, jealous, hateful, violent, and yet you believe in God or in a saviour or in some guru, master, and keep that far away from your daily life so that it doesn’t actually touch it. So religion, as it is, has now become an extraordinary phenomenon which has no validity at all. The Christian for the last two thousand years has been conditioned to believe.

Please observe it in yourself — we are not criticising, we are not condemning, we are just pointing out, and you may not like it, but one must face this fact. You are as conditioned as the communist is conditioned, who doesn’t believe in God, or the atheist, he doesn’t believe. The believer and the non-believer are both conditioned — by their culture, by their time, by the society, by this extraordinary process of propaganda. It has been going on in India and Asia for many thousands of years. And all this, the physical structure, the psychological assertions very strongly in belief, for which one is willing to destroy and be destroyed, which is a matter of opinion, a dialectical assertive opinion. To find out what is true through opinion, however clever, however argumentative, intellectual, has no reality whatsoever, it remains merely an opinion. And religions throughout the world now are utterly meaningless. If one can use it, use the word ‘entertainment’ — probably that would be the actual word — we want to be entertained spiritually and so we go to the church or the temple or the mosque — and which has nothing whatsoever to do with our daily sorrow and misery and confusion and anger and hatred.

And a man who is really serious, who really wants to find out if there is something more than this terrible thing called existence, must obviously be completely free from the dogma, from the belief, from the propaganda; he must be free from the structure in which he has been brought up, to be a religious man with his beliefs and dogmas and rituals. Through negation you come to the positive, the negation of ‘what is’ in the so-called religion.

So, we are going to find out, if we can this evening or this afternoon, what is that thing that man has sought, not through any belief, not through any saviour or through any other person, through a guru, through a teacher, through the speaker, we are going to find out for ourselves if there is or if there is not something that is not the projection of one’s own hope, the projection of one’s own fears, a thing that is invented by a cunning mind, a thing that is bred out of our intense loneliness. So to find out, one must be free of belief. You must be free from the belief in God or no God, for belief is the quality of mind that invests, identifies itself in something that will give it a hope, a comfort, a security, a sense of permanency. One must be free to enquire, therefore free from fear, from anxiety, from the desire to be psychologically secure. That’s the first, obvious requirement for a very, very earnest and serious person who enquires.

Now we are going to enquire. That is, the instrument that is capable of enquiry, a mind that is clear, a mind that has no distortions or prejudice of conclusion, of formula, belief. See how extraordinarily difficult this is, to have a mind that is not in conflict, which means a mind that has understood and is free from conflict. And that’s why we talked from the beginning of these discourses here the necessity of the freedom from fear, from conflict, from pettiness. And a mind — which means not only the mind but the heart, the whole psychosomatic nature of man, must be highly sensitive, for sensitivity implies intelligence. And we are going to go into that a little, because all this is laying the foundation for meditation. If you do not lay the foundation then meditation, which is one of the most extraordinary things in life, if you do not lay the foundation of order, then meditation becomes merely an escape, leading to self-delusion, a hypnosis. A shoddy little mind can learn the tricks of meditation and practise meditation but it will still remain a shoddy, stupid little mind. So, the three previous talks have been the way of laying the foundation for something which demands a great clarity, a great sensitivity.

You know, most of us have very little energy. We spend a great deal of our energy in conflict, in struggle, waste it in various manners, not only sexually but also a great deal is wasted in contradiction, in the fragmentation of ourselves, which brings about conflict. And this conflict is definitely a great wastage of energy — the voltage decreases. And so energy is necessary, not only physical energy but psychological energy. A mind that is intensely clear, logical, healthy, undistorted, and a heart that has no sentiment whatsoever, no emotion, but that quality of abundance of love, compassion. And all this gives a great intensity, passion. And you need that, otherwise you can’t take a journey into this thing called meditation. You may sit cross-legged, breathe — oh, all the fantastic ways, but you’ll never come to it.

So, first, the body must be extraordinarily sensitive. You know, that’s one of the most difficult things because we have spoiled the intelligence of the body through drink, through smoke, through indulgence, by pleasure we have made the body coarse. Look at ourselves and you’ll see. And yet that body, which should be extraordinarily alive and sensitive, what we have reduced it to. And therefore the body affects the mind and the mind affects the body, psychosomatically. So the sensitivity of the body, the organism, is essential, and this sensitivity is not brought about through fasting, through playing all kinds of tricks upon it. The mind has to watch it dispassionately, and I hope you’re doing it now as the speaker is going into it, not tomorrow or the next day or the next hour, but now. Because, as we said, we are partaking together, sharing together the journey, the exploration. And to explore, as we said, there must be freedom to look, to observe.

For observation of ‘what is’ or the event is the understanding of that event or ‘what is’, which is experience. Experience is the understanding of ‘what is’. And the knowledge, the understanding derived from that observation of ‘what is’, that is experience. And to test it out in life, in the everyday living. And that is what is meant by experience. And most of us want great experiences because our own life is so small, so limited, so unspeakably dull. So we want deep, wide, lasting, permanent, beautiful, lovely, romantic experiences. And we haven’t even understood the meaning of that word — the word, not the experience but the word, what that word ‘experience’ means: the observation of ‘what is’ or the event and the understanding of that event or ‘what is’ is experience, and to test it out in daily life. That is the meaning of that word. So a mind — please listen to this — a mind that is seeking an experience is incapable of understanding what truth is. Because life, the life that we lead every day has to be transformed. One must end this hatred, this violence in oneself, the anxiety, the guilt, the ambition, the drive to succeed, to be somebody — that has to be transformed. And without changing that radically, trying to seek some stupid experience has no meaning whatsoever.

So we can see a mind that takes a drug, LSD and various forms of drugs, and thereby hopes to see truth very, very clearly, or have extraordinary experiences, or be entertained, or see things more clearly through drugs, becomes a slave to drugs, which ultimately make the mind dull and stupid. Because the mind, without transforming itself radically, basically, do what it will, will remain as it is: shoddy, frightened, petty little thing, though it may read all the books in the world.

So then we are enquiring — please follow this — we are enquiring together into this question of meditation and what is the religious mind. Not what is religion but the mind that is religious, that is capable of finding out truth. Because the word ‘religion’, the root of it is rather uncertain and we can give any meaning to it we like, and we generally do. But to have no opinion of what is religion is to be free to enquire into what is religion. So this is an exploration into this quality of the mind that is religious. And that quality of mind is not separated from the daily living, the daily living of pain, pleasure, sorrow and confusion.

First of all, to enquire into this there must be freedom from all authority — no guru, no master, you’re alone to find out, no book, nobody to help you. Please see how important this is because we have given our trust, our belief, our faith to others — to the priest, to the saviours, to the teachers, and so on — and having given over our faith we look to them to lead us, and they have led us nowhere, because where you are led is the proof of your life, which is our constant battle with ourselves, with our neighbours. So here, in this enquiry, there is no question of authority whatsoever. You’re really enquiring like a good, sharp, true scientist without seeking a result.

So, when there is no authority whatsoever then there is no system, no practice. Right? System, practice, a method implies a routine, a forming of habit. And if you practise daily a certain system your mind invariably becomes habitual, routine, dull. That’s so simple, so obvious. So systems, methods, practice must completely disappear. See what is happening to the mind — a mind that is not afraid, that is not seeking a pleasure, a pursuit of entertainment, a mind that has no authority but really enquiring, a mind that doesn’t depend on anything, and therefore no fear, and therefore enquiring, such a mind has already become extraordinarily sharp, alive, intense, earnest. When we say the word ‘mind’, the whole of it — the organism, the heart, the mind, the whole business, the beauty of that quality of mind. So, no method and a mind clear, enquiring, observing. And learning as it is observing. And learning is not different from action. To learn is to act. If you learn about nationality, the dangers of separation, of division of people, if you observe it, understand it, the very understanding of it puts an end in action to division, to separation. So observation is astonishingly important.

Then you have this whole business of yoga. You probably all know about it, don’t you? There are so many books written about it. Every Tom, Dick and Harry who has spent few months in India [laughter] and taken a few lessons becomes a yogi, and you fall for it. You know, that word ‘yoga’ has many meanings, but yoga implies a way of life, not just practise some silly exercises to keep young, a way of life in which there is no division and therefore no conflict — which is the way the speaker looks at it. Of course, exercise of the right kind is good. One must do it regularly because it keeps the body supple. One has done it a great deal, the speaker, for years — not to achieve some extraordinary state through breathing and all the rest of it but to keep the body extraordinarily supple. Therefore, to keep the body supple you must have right kind of exercise, right food, and not stuff it with a lot of meat, with all its brutality, insensitivity that it inevitably brings about. So each one has to find out for himself the right diet — experiment, test it out.

Then there is this whole trick that has been foisted on you, this mantra yoga — you know, you repeat words, some mantra has been taught to you for five dollars or ten dollars or thirty dollars. You know what that means? A repetition of words, especially in Sanskrit. Now, you know when you have… the Catholics have rosary and repeat Ave Maria or whatever they repeat, do you know what happens when you repeat constantly a series of words? You kind of mesmerise yourself into tranquillity, or you ride on the tone of the word. You know, when you repeat ‘Hare Krishna’ — isn’t it that they repeat now? — or ‘Tom, Tom’ or ‘Coca-Cola’ or ‘Ave Maria’ [laughter] — when you keep on repeating… when you keep on repeating, it produces a certain sound inwardly, and that inward sound keeps going. If you listen to it, it becomes extraordinarily alive. And you think that’s a most marvellous thing. It’s nothing of the kind. It’s a form of self-hypnosis. And for that you pay a lot of money, to be taught by somebody from the East. How silly it all is! And that too has to be rejected completely.

Then we come to something quite different, which is awareness, concentration and attention. I do not know if you have gone into this — not by reading books, not by being taught in a school in Asia, somewhere, in a monastery, how to be aware — but if you’ve gone into it, you will see what it means for yourself, not be taught by another. We are not… there is no teacher, no disciple, you are both the teacher and the disciple. So you have to learn for yourself what awareness means — to be aware of the hall in which you are sitting, as you are sitting there, to be aware of the colours, the proportion of the hall — not to say, ‘It’s ugly, beautiful,’ just to observe — as you walk down the street, to be aware of the things that are happening around you, to observe the clouds, the trees, the water, the light on the water, the bird with its flight — just to be aware, both outwardly, without any interference by thought which says, ‘This is right, this is wrong, this is beautiful, this is ugly, this should be, should not be,’ but just to be aware. And also being outwardly aware of the things that are happening. Then also to be aware inwardly, to watch every movement of thought, to watch every feeling, every reaction. You know, that makes the mind extraordinarily alive.

There is a difference between concentration and attention. Concentration is a process of exclusion, a process of resistance, and therefore conflict. I do not know if you ever watched your own mind. When you are trying to concentrate on something it wanders off and you try to pull it back, and so the battle goes on, you wanting to try to concentrate, focus your attention on something, concentrate on something, and the thought is interested to look out of the window or to talk about something else or think about something else, so there is a conflict and that’s such a waste of energy and time. So one enquires why the mind chatters at all.

I hope you’re listening to all this, not to a series of words but actually listening to what is being said. And what is said is what you yourself are observing in yourself. Therefore there is communion between the speaker and you. That means we are both of us sharing together, working together, creating together.

Concentration is fairly easy but attention is something entirely different. And we said, why does the mind chatter? You know, endlessly talk to itself or to somebody, or do something, be occupied everlastingly, read a book, turn on the radio — you follow? — keep active — why? First of all, if you have observed it, it’s a habit, a restlessness. The body can never… your body can never sit still for any prolonged time, it’s always doing something or another, fidgeting. So the mind is chattering; it’s become a habit. And also it chatters because if it doesn’t chatter, what happens to it? It’s frightened. And it must be occupied, it must be occupied with social reform, with communism, with democracy, with this or with that, with some belief, with some quarrel, with something that has happened in the past, and you’re thinking constantly. So, the mind demands that it should be occupied, otherwise you are frightened not to be occupied, so it chatters endlessly. And as we were saying, attention is entirely different from concentration. Awareness and attention go together, not concentration. A mind that is intensely attentive can observe very clearly without any distortion, without any resistance, and yet function efficiently, clearly, objectively when necessary. Now, what is the quality of such a mind?

I hope you are all interested in all this. If not, I’m sorry, because this is part of life — if you reject all this you reject the whole of life also. If you do not know the meaning and the beauty of meditation you do not know anything of life. You may have all the latest cars, latest bathrooms, you may be able to travel all over the world freely, but if you do not know the real beauty and the freedom and the joy of meditation you are missing an awful lot. Which is not to make you say, ‘I must learn to meditate.’ It is a natural thing that comes about. A mind that is enquiring must inevitably come to this. A mind that is aware, that observes, that observes ‘what is’ in itself, which is self-understanding, which is self-knowing, and learning from that knowing is experience, and the testing of it in daily action. Now we’re asking what is the quality of the mind that has come so far, naturally, without any effort?

You know, when you look at something, a tree or a cloud, or the face of your wife or your husband, or the child or the neighbour, to observe very clearly, you can only observe out of silence, you can only listen when there is no self-projected noise. When you are chattering to yourself, saying, ‘I must compare what is being said with what already I know,’ then you are not listening. When you are observing with your visual eyes, and if you are… if there is all kinds of prejudices or knowledge interfering with that observation, you’re really not observing. So when you observe, listen really, you can only do so out of silence. Now… And when the mind is completely silent — I do not know if you have ever gone that far, and if you have, which is not something that you cultivate, take years to come upon, because it is not the product of time, it is not the product of comparison, it’s the product of observation in daily life, observation of your thoughts, the understanding of thought — the mind becomes extraordinarily quiet, not asleep but highly active in that silence. It is only such a mind that can see what truth is, can see if there is something beyond or nothing beyond. It is only such a mind is a religious mind because it has left the past completely, though it can use the past.

And religion then is something that cannot possibly be put into words, it cannot be measured by words. For thought is the measure and as we said, thought is the response of the past and so thought is never free, it is always functioning within the field of the known. And so a mind that is capable of understanding what truth is, what reality is, and if there is such thing as reality, must be free completely of all the human tricks, human deceptions, illusions. And you know, this takes a lot of work, and this means an inward discipline, a discipline which is not imitation, conformity or adjustment. Discipline comes in the observation of ‘what is’ and learning about it. The ‘learning about’ itself is its own discipline. Therefore there is order, and end of disorder in oneself. And all this, from the beginning of these talks till now, is part of meditation. And if you do not know how to look at a cloud or see the beauty of the water on the sea, or the line of the hills with their splendour, if you do not know how to look at your wife or the boy or the girl with a fresh eye, with an eye that has never been harmed, that has never shed a tear — it is only that innocency — that word means a mind that has never been hurt — it’s only such a mind can see what truth is.

[Pause]

I do not know if you want to ask any questions about all this.

Questioner: May I ask a question?

K: Yes, sir.

Q: A while ago I had for myself identified what it is that… the key to inner freedom is the observer and the observed being one… [inaudible]

K: What are you trying to say, sir? Would you mind talking loudly and being brief, because I have to repeat it.

Q: [Inaudible]

K: I don’t understand, sir, what you’re saying. I can’t hear you properly.

Q: I experienced the observer and the observed being one.

K: You are saying you have experienced the observer and the observed being one.

Q: Yes.

K: Right — so then what?

Q: I had a lot of conflict, I had great resistance to it and I realised that I was this resistance and that only resistance looked at resistance, and then suddenly the resistance was gone, it was like a miracle. And suddenly I had physical strength to finish my…

K: Non capisco niente — I mean, I’m sorry, I don’t understand what you’re saying, sir. I’m sorry, I cannot… Would somebody…

Q: [Inaudible] …this experience of the observer and the observed being one comes uninvited.

K: Sir, are you trying to say that the observer and the observer is one, and you are trying to confirm what I’m saying?

Q: No, no, I had an experience…

K: Yes, what about it, sir?

Q: [Inaudible]

K: Why are you saying this, sir? What is the meaning of your saying that you have experienced it? What is the point of it? Are you trying to confirm what I am saying, giving me encouragement or the audience encouragement? [Laughter]

Q: It comes uninvited. It clearly comes uninvited. It needs enormous energy before to come to the point that the observer and observed are one.

K: I don’t quite understand it, sir. Please, you haven’t made it clear.

The gentleman is saying he has known or experienced or found out that the observer and the observed are one. Bene, right. I don’t quite see…

Q: [Inaudible] …if I see that, if I realise that I am the resistance…

K: Oh, no, sir, this is just…

Q: [Inaudible]

K: Sir, look, sir, do, please sit down, sir. It’s fairly clear what the gentleman says. He says, what we have been talking about, that the observer is the observed, which is, when there is fear the observer is part of that fear. He is not identifying himself with fear; the observer is part of that very fear itself. Now, to realise that is fairly simple. Either you realise it verbally, theoretically, understand the meaning of that word, or actually see the observer and the observed are one. If you see that actually, it does make a drastic difference in your life. It ends conflict because in the division between the observer and the observed there is a division, there is a gap, there is a time interval, and therefore there is conflict. And when you actually see, observe by testing, that the observer and the observed are one, you actually end all conflict in life, in all relationship.

Yes, sir?

Q: When we realise that the past is interposed between the inner and the outer and we do not free ourselves from it, what can we do?

K: Sir, the acoustics are not very good here.

Q: I’d like to ask a question.

Q: When we realise that the past, as the mind, is interposed between something deeper and the outside, what can we do?

K: Ah.

Q: We can’t stop it; it keeps going on.

K: When there is something deeper inside and the outer contradicts that, what is one to do.

Q: No, that is not what I said.

K: I’m sorry, I can’t…

Q: The mind interposes itself, as the past, between the inner and outer.

K: The mind interposes itself, as the past…

Q: …between outer and the inner.

K: A-ha. The mind interposes itself between the outer and the inner. The mind interposes itself, which is the past, between the inner and the outer.

Now look at it. There is the inner and the outer, and the mind as something separate, as being the past. So there are three things now: the inner, the outer, and the mind as the past. That’s right, sir? [Laughter] No, please, sir, don’t laugh — this is our life, this is what we are doing, only you may put the question differently, verbalise it in a different way, but this is actually what is going on in our daily life. You want to do something, the mind says, ‘Don’t do it. Do it some other way,’ so there is a battle going on. The mind is interfering, the mind is the thought, thought being the past, thought says… thought comes in between the actual, the inner, and the outer. And so what is one to do? Right, sir?

Q: Right.

K: What is one to do? Thought interferes all the time, comes in between. Thought itself has divided the outer and the inner. Right? You’re following this? The function of the thought is to divide, isn’t it? Thought is the past, and so there is the past, the present and the future. Thought has divided life as the past, the present and the future. So thought has divided the inner and the outer. Thought says, ‘How can I bridge the two and act as a whole?’ Right, sir? Can thought do this? Because the thought itself is the factor of division.

Q: Where’s there’s a will there’s a way. [Laughter]

K: Where there is a will there is way. No, sir, you have your way, you have your way in the world, you have your will to destroy people and you have succeeded, you have found the way. We are not concerned with will. Will is the most destructive thing, for will is based on pleasure, desire and not on free joy. We won’t go into that for the moment.

Sir, you’re saying thought interferes. Thought interferes and divides. So you’re asking how thought can be silenced, kept quiet — isn’t it, sir? No, wait a minute, sir, let me finish this question. How can thought be silenced? Is that the right question? Because if you put the wrong question you’ll invariably get the wrong answer. [Laughter] No, no, please, sir, this isn’t a laughing matter. You must put the right question. We are going to put the right question. Is it the right question to say, ‘How can thought end?’ Or find out what is the function of thought. If you put an end to thought — if that is at all possible — then how will you operate when you want to go home, when you have got to go to the office tomorrow? Thought apparently is necessary. So you’re saying thought is dangerous in a certain direction because it divides, and yet thought must function logically, sanely, objectively, healthily in another direction. So how is this possible? How can thought not interfere, and yet thought must function? Do you see the problem? Not how to end thought.

So when you have put the question very clearly, that is — well, let’s go into it again, you will see it for yourself — to put the question very clearly, which is, thought, which is the result of the… which is the response of the past, interferes. Thought divides, as the outer and the inner, and thought destroys unity. So we say, ‘Let us destroy thought, let us kill the mind.’ And how to do it is a totally wrong question. But if you enquire into the whole structure of thought, see what its place is, where it is not necessary, then you will find out this mind that is intelligent, that will operate intelligently, when thought doesn’t function and when thought must function. Am I answering the question, sir? Good.

Q: Krishnamurti?

K: Yes, sir.

Q: Why is it that you have a greater awareness of ‘what is’ than I do? What is your secret? [Laughter]

K: Why is it, the questioner asks, that you have a greater awareness of ‘what is’ than I have. I never thought about it, really. [Laughter] [Applause]

Q: The question was asked in seriousness.

K: Wait a minute, sir, wait a minute, I haven’t finished. I’ve really never thought about it.

Now just look. Is humility something to be cultivated? And if you cultivate humility it is still vanity. If you cultivate the awareness of ‘what is’ you are not being aware. But if you are aware when you sit in a bus or driving a car, when you look and talk, when you go and enjoy yourself on the beach or climb the hills, when you go and sit in a cinema, watch yourself, just watch. And out of that, naturally, easily, comes the awareness of ‘what is’. But if you try to cultivate and pay great deal of attention to ‘what is’, thought is operating, not awareness. Got it?

[Applause]

K: Yes, sir?

Q: I have a question.

Q: Did you say to be free we should have no teachers? Did I understand it correctly?

K: To be free implies to have no teachers?

Q: I asked if this is what you said: to be free we should have no teachers.

K: Sir, now just look. What is the function of a teacher? If he knows some technological subject — medicine, geography, how to run a computer and so on, science and so on — his function is to instruct another about the knowledge and the information he has. Right? That is fairly simple. Now, we are talking about something in which when the teacher says he knows and wants to instruct the disciple, then be terribly suspicious because the man who says he knows does not know. Right? Because truth, that beauty of that enlightenment, what you will call it, cannot ever be said, ‘It is.’ It’s a living thing, it’s a moving thing, it’s active, it’s vital. It’s only the dead thing you can say, ‘It is.’ And the teacher who teaches you about dead things is not a teacher.

Q: Sir? You mentioned that concentration is an exclusion of other things and that… [inaudible]

K: You know, I am not deaf but I can’t hear.

Q: Concentration, attention and discipline… [inaudible]

K: Attention and discipline, how do you put it together?

Q: Yes, sir.

K: Right.

The word ‘discipline’ means to learn, learn from another. The disciple means one who learns from the teacher, from the guru. Now, what is learning? Have you ever considered or gone into that question of what is learning? Learning, the active present of that word, verb, ‘to learn’ — the active present — what does that word ‘learning’ mean? Now, either you are learning to add to what already you know, which becomes knowledge — you’re following? — like science, it’s the accumulation of knowledge, or learning is not an accumulation of knowledge but learning, a movement. Do you see the difference between the two? I either learn in order to acquire knowledge to be efficient technologically and so on, learn, learn, learn, or I am learning all the time, which is always new, and therefore action always new.

Now, look at this for a minute. I want to know about myself. I want to learn about myself. Please listen to this. Once you understand this you will… it’ll be quite different, you’ll see. I want to learn about myself. I am a very complex entity. There is both the hidden and the obvious. I want to learn the whole totality about myself, know myself, learn about myself. So I watch myself, and I am afraid. I see I’m afraid, I see the cause of that fear, and in watching I have learnt. And I have learnt and that will become my knowledge. Now, next time fear arises — please listen to this carefully — next time fear arises I look at it with the previous knowledge. Right? Therefore I have stopped learning. I am only looking at it with the past and therefore not learning about what actually is going on. You understand that? So to learn about myself there must be freedom of constant observation without the past interfering, which is thought interfering. So learning has two meanings: learning to acquire knowledge with which I can operate most efficiently in certain fields, and also learning implies learning about oneself so that the past doesn’t interfere all the time, which is thought, so I can observe.

Q: I have a question.

K: You have seen this, sir? Just a minute — have you seen this?

So the mind is always learning. So the mind is always sensitive. So that the past, a thought doesn’t interfere. If you haven’t understood, I can’t explain — sorry.

Q: Sir?

K: Just a minute, sir.

Q: I’d like to ask if you eat meat or fish.

K: Are you a vegetarian. [Laughter] Do you eat meat or fish. Does it really interest you?

Q: Yes.

Q: Yes.

Q: It does.

K: All right. All my life I’ve never touched meat or fish. I don’t know what it tastes like.

Q: Good.

K: Not ‘good’. [Laughter] I never tasted it. I’ve been brought up — doesn’t matter — in Europe, but I’ve never tasted it, I don’t know what it — never smoked or never drank. There’s no meaning to it. Will that make you also vegetarian? [Laughter] [Applause] It won’t, it won’t. Just a minute, sir. Let me finish.

You know, heroes, examples, are the worst things you can do, have. Find out why you eat meat, why you indulge in smoking and drinking and all the rest of it, why one cannot lead a simple life. A simple life doesn’t mean one cloth, one suit, or one meal a day. The quality of the mind that is simple so that it can look directly without all the distortions of pleasure and desire and ambitions, motives, so that it can look and perceive the beauty of the world.

Q: Sir, up here. Up here, sir.

K: Yes, sir?

Q: I just want to ask what humour is.

K: He wants to ask what humour is. I really don’t know. [Laughter] I suppose really to laugh at oneself, if you can, because we have so much tears in our heart, so much misery, to look at ourselves with laughter. To observe with clarity, seriousness and with laughter.

That’s enough, sirs — I think it’s time to stop.

[Applause]