K School – Students Talk 2, Rajghat, 28 December 1954

May I again remind those who are older that these talks in the morning are primarily meant for those students that are at Rajghat. And if you, the older people want to ask question, please before you ask, bear in mind that the question should be related to the children; and their problems. I would like this morning to discuss the question of freedom; it is a very complex problem, political freedom, social freedom, religious freedom and the freedom, what one wants to do and to do what one likes to do. It is complex and needs deep study and understanding and volumes have been written on it by very prominent scholars, and others but I think we can approach it very simply and perhaps that may be the real solution to the problem, to approach a complex issue very simply, not with all the intellectual barriers, with all the speculations with the mind indulges in, but to look at the problem very simply and directly; I don’t know if you noticed yesterday evening as the sun set, there was a marvellous glow in the west and as you stood in the bank you saw the tender shy moon. Did any of you notice it to observe a thing of beauty and it was very beautiful because the river was very quiet, everything was reflected in it, the bridge, the train that went by, the young moon, presently as it darkened the stars, everything was reflected because the river was very very quiet but to observe to watch, to give attention to something wholly like that, your mind must be free from preoccupations, must it not? It must not be occupied with problems, with worries, with speculations. It is only when the mind is very quiet, then you can observe, then the mind is sensitive to receive an extraordinary thing like last evening, because the moon was just fresh, shy and hanging over a tree and it was a lovely sight and if you noticed it and to watch, to observe, receive its extraordinary thing the beauty of that, the mind must be very quiet, very sensitive which means really it must be free from all preoccupations and that perhaps is the clue to this question of freedom, because we consider freedom to do what we like as one of the students yesterday told me after the talk we are not free here. How, what does that mean to be free. To do what you like to give to town when you like, to think what you will which you do any how. To have independence does that mean freedom because very few of you, few people are free in the world; so if we can look at that problem very simply, really simply, because freedom implies does it not, requires great deal of intelligence; freedom is to be intelligent but that intelligence is not come by just wishing to be free; it comes into being if you understand the whole social climate, religious, parental, traditional influences that are closing in. We must understand this; we must know what they are like, look at them and throw them out but to look at the influences of your father, your parents, of the government, of the society, of the culture, of your beliefs, your superstitions, your gods, why you people you put on these namams [forehead mark], sacred threads, anti this and pro that, to understand all this pressures, all these influences, requires great deal of insight and you give in to those influences in yourself being frightened. You are frightened of not having a good position in life; you are frightened of what your priest say if you believe in that stuff at all which is mostly nonsense. You are frightened if you believe in tradition, not doing the right thing, so freedom is really a state of mind in which there is no demand, or the compulsion or the urgency to have a safe place, to be secure; perhaps you don’t understand this but you will understand it when it is translated this evening; don’t we want to be saved, don’t you want to be told what a marvellous person you are, how lovely you look, what an extraordinary intelligence you have, otherwise you would not put initials after your name; because all that gives you a sense of importance, self assurance; we all want to be famous, great people; so the moment you want to be something you are no longer free; please understand this; that is the real clue, you understand what I am talking; the moment you want to be somebody in this world, or in another world, in this world of politicians, power position, authority or in the so called spiritual where you want to be a saint, virtuous, noble follow a perfect example, when ever you want to be something you are no longer free; but the man or the woman who sees the absurdity of all these things and therefore in his heart the desire to want to be something, such a person is free person. You understand the simplicity of it first; and if you understand it you will see the extraordinary beauty of it, the depth of it and it is only the mind that does not want to be anything and therefore innocent, such a mind is a free mind but if you want to be somebody; after all you have examinations for that reason to give a position, to be somebody; you have titles, positions, knowledge everything to encourage you to be something; have you not noticed your parents, your teachers tell you you must be something in life; look at your grand father, or grand mother she was that, you must be like that. Or you have examples of saints, of heroes, and you are always imitation; to be like the masters, saints, so you are never free a moment. The moment you want to be something imitate somebody or follow somebody, whether you follow the master, the saint your teacher or your parent or a tradition, all that imply a need the demand on your part to be something and it is only when you really understand this then there is freedom and so education is, is it not, to help you from childhood, not to be somebody but to be yourself all the time which is the most difficult thing to do, to be yourself whether you are ugly, beautiful, whether you are envious, jealous, to be that and understand that. But that is very difficult because we think what we are is ugly, is to little, so small, so petty, and so we think if I could only change that into something noble, it would be marvellous but that never happens, if you look at what you actually are, understand what you are, then there is a transformation in that. And in that there is freedom, not in becoming something different. You know there is freedom not in what you want to do, or in following the authority, or your father, mother, your tradition, or your guru, but there is freedom in understanding, whatever you are.

But you see we are not educated for that. Our education consists in trying to become something not in understanding yourself which is very complex thing because yourself is not merely the entity that goes to school, that quarrels, that plays games, that is afraid, but your entity that is something also not shown, obvious, which is hidden. Therefore to understand this whole entity, all the thoughts that have been put into your mind, all the things that you think, what people tell you, the books, the newspapers, your leaders, to understand all that is only possible when you don’t want to be somebody, when you don’t imitate, when you don’t follow which means really when there is a revolt, revolt against this whole system of trying to become something, that is the only revolution and in that you will find there is extraordinary freedom because the ambitious man is never a free man. You see the older people here shake their head and say yes. They agree with all this, but they are not going to do a thing about this, that is understood; they only sit here and shake their head in agreement; that is all but they a re going to be ambitious, they are going to follow, they want to be somebody, they have gurus, they have examples; they follow and so can never be free. Whereas the young people, they are beginning, they are just learning; they are just looking out of the window on life, the life that that is ugly, beautiful, extraordinary lovely to look, with all the complexities of poverty, riches literature, the conflict of wills, their parents, their education, their teachers, their own desire wants them to be identified with one of these things in order to be happy, secure; so surely, education is something which helps the student to understand all these things and not to become one of them. To be intelligent, surrounded by all these influences that crush, that make you slaves to break through all that, that is real freedom, because look at what is happening, what is going to happen to you when you grow up; here you are comparatively free; still you are young, studying. As you grow older the walls begin to close round you, you have to have a job. You are married, you have children, your father tells you what to do, or society says this is right, this is wrong, you must follow this so all the time as you are growing older the prison closes round and you become part of the prison and then you again impose the same prison to your children and so you continue. So it is only for those who are seeing all this and revolt against it not verbally, but actually. So the hope is not in the old people, who merely agree, of a new world but the hope is in you because you see all this about you and that is why you should have right education, educator, create a new world not the world according to my or the old person or according to some master or some philosopher but you will create it when you grow in freedom; whatever that world will be you will create it and you can only create if you understand very deeply the question of what freedom is. And there is no freedom if you are merely trying to become somebody or imitate something; please this is very important problem. Though you may not understand what I am saying, listen to it ; it is like being exposed so something beautiful, it is marvellous to see a that river every morning; to see the skies, to hear the song of a bird, to see this poor, the rich, the poor woman carry heavy bundles to sell for a few annas in the town, to be exposed to all that, to the skies, to the beautiful earth, because then your mind becomes sensitive, supple and similarly you should be exposed to all the things of which I am talking so that your mind begins even from childhood to consider these problems; and so when you grow older, you begin to see the extraordinary depth, the wide canvass of existence and not merely be caught in a little corner which you call life and to understand all this there must be no fear, and that is very difficult, to have really no fear; fear of having no job because if you think certain things, if you are in revolt you may not have a job. but to stick to what you see to be the true, and what is true is not merely what you believe; that is merely a wish; leave all that to the old people but find out what is true, to be curious, enquire, don’t be satisfied; revolt to find out what is right. And you can only revolt when there is freedom and freedom mean really the sense of having no fear which means really forget yourself.

Question: What is intelligence?

Now let us go into the question very slowly, patiently and find out. Find out and not come to a conclusion; I don’t know if you see the difference because look, the moment you come to a conclusion what intelligence is, you cease to be intelligent; don’t laugh sirs, that is what the older people are doing; they have concluded. They say there is reincarnation, there is god, they have concluded, they say it is so; and the moment they say it is so, they have already ceased to be intelligent; so you begin to find out that intelligent mind is that which is constantly learning, never conclusions; so you have found one thing, right off. I understand the young people turning to look at the door to see who is coming. But the old people turn their head immediately because they are not interested in this.

The boy asks what is intelligence; by giving a definition of what intelligence is, you understand a definition, a explanation, a verbal statement, a dictionary meaning, most people are satisfied with that. An explanation, either they say that is a good explanation or bad I prefer my own explanation which means they are satisfied with explanations which means that words that have no meaning at all. A mind that is satisfied with an explanation is not a intelligent mind; because it is a very superficial mind, so you begin to find oat that a intelligent mind is not a mind that is satisfied with superficial explanations, that is satisfied with a conclusion or a mind that believes, because belief is again another form of conclusion, so an intelligent mind is free from belief, from conclusion, free from verbal statement, but an enquiring mind, a mind that is watching learning, studying, which means what, there is intelligence only when there is no fear, when you are willing to go against the whole social structure, willing to rebel, to find out what god, truth, anything is. It is only such a mind is capable of understanding that extraordinary thing called intelligence; intelligence is not knowledge; you can read all the books in the world, but that doesn’t give you intelligence So intelligence is something very subtle; it has no anchorage. And that intelligence can only come into being when you understand the whole process, the whole total process of the mind, your mind not the mind according, to some philosopher or teacher but your own mind be- cause your mind is the result of all humanity and when you understand that, you don’t have to study a single book because that mind contains the whole knowledge of the past; so intelligence comes into being when there is self knowledge, with self knowledge, with understanding of your self and you can only understand yourself in relation to the world, the world being things, people and ideas; s o intelligence is not a thing that you learn but it comes into being with great revolt, when there is no fear, when there is really that sense of love because then when there is no fear there is love.

I am afraid I have not answered your question, have I? The boy asked what is intelligence and he is only interested in explanation; he says I have asked you a simple question what intelligence and for God’s sake why don’t you say it straightly what it is. Can you say it as simply as that? If you say what is life, is life examination, sex, job, quarrel, envy, ambition; life is everything, is it not?

But you see we have not the patience to sit down earnestly and seriously and nowhere pursue that enquiry consistently?

Question: Can the crude mind become sensitive?

Listen to the question to the words the meaning behind the words. Can the crude mind become sensitive? now watch; can anything in becoming be something else? I say my mind is crude; and I want to become sensitive; the very wanting to become sensitive is crude. Please see that. Don’t smile at it but watch it. Look, you tell me I am stupid in a class and you tell me I must become clever and so the becoming clever is a greater form of stupidity because what is important is to understand stupidity, not trying to become clever. If I say I am crude, and stop trying to become sensitive, but understand what is crudeness, watch it in my life, the manner I eat, the roughness with which I treat people, the pride, the arrogance, watch as I live from day to day, the crudeness of my habits, thoughts, the crudeness, that very observation, that without wanting to change it transforms that which is. Sir, look if I am stupid, however much I may try to become clever my stupidity will remain; I may have the superficial acquisition of cleverness, I may be able to quote books, repeat sentences from great authors, but basically I am stupid. I have learnt the polish, but essentially I am stupid but if I see, if I can understand that stupidity how it expresses’ itself in my daily life, how I behave with my servants, how I treat my neighbour, the poor man, the rich man, the governor, the clerk, then that observation, awareness of my stupidity brings in itself a breaking away of that stupidity. You try it. You watch how you talk to your servants, and your ways and how you treat with tremendous respect a stupid governor and how you treat the low man that has nothing to give you; there you find out how stupid one is and in understanding that you don’t become anything; then you are sensitive; then you don’t have to become sensitive. The man who becomes something is the most ugly entity; he is the most crude person.

Q: But you advise the boys to become sensitive.

I did not say become sensitive. I never said become sensitive. Words, if not properly understood become a hindrance. If the intention is to understand beyond the words you have understood what I have said. You won’t quibble.

Q: How can the child find out what he is without the help of parents, teacher?

Did I say that? Or is your understanding of what I said that? The gentleman asks how is a child to find out what he is without all the impositions of authority and so on. You understand the question? How are you as young girl, or boy to find out about yourself without being forced, compelled, you will find about yourself if the atmosphere in which you live helps you to find out about yourself. If your teacher is concerned that you shall discover about yourself what you are, he won’t compel you. He will create circumstances in which you will find out abut yourself. Sir, you see you ask that question but if it was your problem, if you say this is important with the child, shall find out about himself and he can’t if authority is there, you will help to bring about a circumstance which the child will see what he is, himself. It is again the same attitude; show me what to do and I will do. We don’t say look, let us work this out together; this is a problem that concerns the older people the teachers, children, everybody. How to bring about in which child can have a knowledge of himself and there cannot be knowledge if it is imposed and understand if it is compelled. If it is a problem with you, me and the teacher and the parent and then we will create a school where this will happen. But you cannot say I will walk out and leave it all to me.

Question: Children told me that they are afraid of ghosts, spirits, and so on. They are afraid of them. They told me they have seen some weird phenomena like possession in villages. Some asked what is death, some why there is death.

In due course we will discuss what god, death is but you see fear is an extraordinary thing; you haven been told by your parents, older people somebody has told you about ghosts. Otherwise you would not see ghosts; somebody has told you about possession. We are all too young to know about all this. Therefore it is not your experience it is the experience of what other people have told you, that brings quite a different question which is, is there an experience which is uncontaminated by the past? If it is contaminated by the past, it is no longer experience. It is merely a continuity of the past and therefore it is not an original experience; so what is important is that those who are with children should not impose on them their own particular fallacies, their own ghosts, their own ideas, their own experience and that is very difficult because older people begin to talk to you all these unessential stupid things that have no importance in life, and gradually communicate to the children their own anxieties, fears, obsessions, ghosts, and the children repeat it after them. If you have not been told about the masters, living somewhere far away you would not believe in that ; if you knew nothing about it; similarly you impose these unfortunate ideas and they copy them because you have power to punish them. So it is very important while we are very young not to listen to all this rubbish but to find out and it is very important for the older people not to talk about these things in front of the children because they don’t know about it, they themselves don’t know about it they have read about it in some book, and they repeat it and they think they have understood it. So it is very important to create a right atmosphere for the children to grow in freedom.