K School – Students Talk 2, Rajghat, 5 January 1954

Krishnaji’s Talks At Rajghat 5-1-1954.

II

You know I would like to talk this morning on a topic which may be rather difficult, but we will try and make it as simple and direct as possible. You know most of us have some kind of fear, have we not? Do you know your particular fear? You might be afraid of your teacher, of your guardian, of your parents, of the older people or of a snake or a buffalo or of what somebody says or of death and so on. Each one has fear, has not one? But for young people, the fears are very fairly superficial. But as we grow older, they become more complex, more difficult, more subtle. You know the word subtle’, ‘complex’ and ‘difficult’, don’t you? For example, I want to fulfil, I am not an old person, I want to fulfil things in a particular direction. You know what ‘fulfilment’ means. Every word is difficult, is it not? I want to become a great writer. I feel if I could right [write], my life will be happy. So, I want to write. But something happens to me, I get paralysed and for the rest of my life, I am frightened, I am frustrated, I feel I have not lived. So, that becomes my fear. So, as we grow older, various forms of fear come into being, fears of being left alone, not having a friend, being lonely, losing property, having no position, the various types of fear, but we won’t go into the very difficult ones and the subtle ones, because they require much more much [Blank space in original typescript. WS-06] more thought which we shall not go into. But I think it is a very important problem that we should, you and I young people should consider this question of fear, because you see society and older people think fear is necessary. Because they think fear will keep you in right behaviour. If you are afraid of your teacher or of your parents, they can control you better, can they not? They can say ‘do this and do not do that’ and you will have, jolly well, to obey them. So, fear is used as a moral pressure. So, we use fear, say in a large class as a means of controlling the students. Is it not so? Society says fear is necessary, otherwise, the citizens, the people will just outflow do things wildly. Fear has become a necessity for the control of man. You know fear is used to civilize (?) man, religions throughout the world have used fear as a means of controlling man. Have they not? They say if you do not yourself, next life you will pay for it and each religion, though they preach love, they preach brotherhood, they talk about unity of man, they all subtly or very brutally grossly maintain thin sense of fear. If you have a large class of students in one class, how can the teacher control you? He cannot. He has to invent ways and means of controlling you. So, he says ‘compete’ to become like that boy, who is much cleverer than you. So, you struggle, you are afraid, your fear is generally used as a means of controlling people, you understand and is it not very important that education should eradicate, should help the students to get rid of fear, because fear corrupts the mind and I think it is very important in a school of this kind that every form of fear should be understood and dispelled, got rid of. Otherwise, if everyone has any kind of fear, it twists the mind, and you can never be intelligent. Fear is like a dark cloud and it is like walking in sunshine with a dark cloud in your mind, always frightened.

So, is it not the function of education, to be truly educated is to understand fear and to be free of it. Take for instance, you go off without telling your Housemaster or teacher and come back and invent stories saying that you have been with some people, while you have been to a cinema and which means you are frightened and if you are not frightened of the teacher, you think you would do what you like and the teachers think the same. But to understand fear implies a great deal, much more than doing what you want to do, do exactly what you want to do. You know there are natural reactions of the body, are there not? When you see a that is snake, you jump. That is not fear, because that is natural reaction of the body. In front of danger, it reacts, it jumps. When you see a precipice, you do not walk just blindly along. That is not fear. When you see a danger, or a car coming very fast, you sweep out of the way. It is not an indication of fear. Those are bodily responses to protect itself against danger, but there are no such, reactions are not fear. But fear comes in, does it not, when you want to do something and you are prevented from doing it. That is one type of fear. I want to go to a cinema, I would like to go out of Banaras for the day and the teacher says ‘no’. So, you have regulations and I do not like these regulations. I like to go. So I go on some excuse but I come back, the teacher finds out that I have gone and I am afraid of punishment. So, fear comes in, when there is a feeling that I am going to be punished, but if the teacher talks over smoothly why you should not go to a town, you understand why, if you want to go to town without understanding all the implications of going, without the teacher explaining to you the dangers, eating of food which is not clean and so on, if he has not the time to explain to you and go into the whole problem and help you to understand it why you should not go, then because you also think, your intelligence is awakened to find out why you should not go. Then, there is no problem, you do not go and if you want to go, talk it over and find out. But to do just what you like, to know that you are free from fear is not intelligence. Courage is the opposite of fear. You know in the battlefields, they are very courageous, for various reasons they take drinks or do all kinds of things to feel courageous, but that is not freedom from fear. We won’t go into it, let us leave it. So, should not education help the students to be free from fear of every kind which means from now on to understand all the problems of life, problems of sex, problems of death, of public opinion, of authority. I am going to discuss all these things, so that when you leave this place, though there are fears in the world, through your own ambitions, your own desires you will understand and so be free from fear, because you know fear is very dangerous. All people are afraid of something or other. Most people do not want to make a mistake, do not want to go wrong. I do not want to make a mistake, I do not want to go wrong, specially when we are young, because we think if we can follow somebody, if we can listen to somebody, he will tell us what to do and doing that, we will achieve an end, a purpose.

So, most of us are very conservative, you know what that word is, you know what is to ‘conserve’? To hold, to guard. Most of us want to remain respectable and so, we want to do the right thing, we want to follow the right conduct which if you go into very deeply, you will see is an indication of fear. Why not make a mistake, why not find out? But the man who is afraid, he is always thinking ‘I must do the right thing, I must look respectable, I must not let the public think what I am or not.’ Such a man is really, fundamentally, basically afraid. A man who is ambitious is really a frightened person and a man who is frightened has no love, has no sympathy,, It is like a person enclosed in a wall, in a house and it is very important while we are young, to understand this thing, to understand fear. It is fear that makes us obey, but if we can talk it over, reason together, discuss and think together, then I may understand it or I will do it, but to compel me, to force me to do a thing which I do not understand because I am frightened of you, is wrong education. Is it not?

So, I feel it is very important in a place like this that both the educator and the educated should understand this problem. Because, you see creativity, to be creative, you know what it means — You know to write a poem is partly creative, to paint a picture, to look at a tree and to love the tree, the river, the birds, the people, the earth, the feeling that the earth is ours. That is partly creative. But that feeling is destroyed when you have fear, when you cay this is mine, my country, my class, my group, my philosophy, my religion. When you have that kind of feeling, you are not creative, because it is the instinct of fear that is dictating, this feeling that is mine, my country. After all, the earth is not yours and mine, it is ours and if we can think in those terms, we will create quite a different world, not an American world, or a Russian world or Indian world, but it will be our world, yours and mine, the rich man’s and the poor man’s. But the difficulty is when there is fear, we do not create and a person who is afraid, can never find truth or God. All our worships, all our images, all our rituals behind them, is fear and therefore, your gods are not gods, they are stones.

So, it is very important while we are young, to understand this thing and you can only understand it when you know that you are afraid, when you can look at your own fears, but that requires a great deal of insight which we want to discuss now. Because it is a much deeper problem which the older people can discuss, we will discuss that with the teachers, but it is the function of the educator to help the educated to understand fear. It is for the teachers to help you to understand your fears and not to suppress it, not to hold you down, so that when you leave this place, your mind is very clear, sharp, unspoiled by fear. As I was saying yesterday, the old people have not created a beautiful world, they are fill of darkness, fear, corruption, competition. They have not created a good world and perhaps if you, going out of this place, out of Rajghat can really be free from fear of every kind or understand how to met fear in yourself and in others then perhaps you will create quite a different world, not a world of the communist or the congressite or any of those stupidities, but a totally different world. Truly that is the function of education,,

QUESTION:- What is sorrow?

Krishnaji:- A boy of ten asks what is sorrow? Do you know anything of sorrow? Do not bother who is asking, but a little boy asking what is sorrow is a sad thing, is it not? It is a very terrible thing. Why should he know sorrow? It is the old people unfortunately who know sorrow. You are missing the point. You as an elder person know sorrow. Do you know what sorrow means? When you see a beggar and a rich man going by, when you see death a body being borne, when you see a dead bird, when you see somebody crying, when you see degradation, poverty, people quarrelling, hitting each other verbally and physically, all that is sorrow, is it not? But also when your father or mother dies, you are left alone. But you see here we grow with death. You understand what I am saying that we grow with death. We are never happy human beings. You see a dead body being carried to the river and you are with your parents and the parents say ‘do not look, it is terrible — death.’ So you begin. When you see a beggar, as a little boy cannot help seeing a beggar, with torn clothes, disease, wounds and you feel so sorry for that man and the parent or older people take you away, not explaining. That is the calamity, a social misery, to have such people about and the parents are responsible for it, they do not explain all these things. They want to protect you, hide you from all that. They do not make you a revolutionary, which does not mean you must become a silly communist, but something, much more different is ‘revolutionary’. They do not explain to you all these things and they are frightened, so they want to protect you. Sorrow is something that has to be understood, tears have to be understood. There is no understanding when you are happy. When you smile, you smile, that does not need explanation. But you see we are brought up here as well as outside unfortunately without knowing how to think, how to observe, how to watch and so we increase sorrow and multiply our trouble. But if we know, if the education that we have, the teachers that we have can help us, can point out these things, to discuss, to talk over, so that we become [not] just the ordinary every day, stupid fathers and mothers and politicians and clerks or governors, but real human beings, really revolutionary, to create a new world, then perhaps we can understand and change and put away sorrow.

Question:- What is the definition about the good world?

Krishnaji:- You know, as I said yesterday, this is primarily meant for students, students who want to find out, who want to discuss and the older people, if they are interested to help the students to understand the problem, not to ask a problem, I say no (?). Probably, children are not interested. What is the definition of the good world [Note that in the original typescript the ‘l’ in world has been deleted — see comment in next paragraph. Changes are shown in square brackets. WS-08]? I am not talking to the lady I am talking to all of us. So, I am not personal to her. I am talking to everyone of you. So, it is away from that person. Now, what is the mind that asks such a question? The mind says what is the definition of a good world [word]? The statement is clear, you can look up a dictionary and there you will find a definition. a clear statement and we think by finding a definition, we have understood the problem. That is how we are trained, we think we understand when we have a definition. Definition is not understanding. On the contrary it is the most destructive way of thinking. Why do I want to know the definition of the good world [word]? Because I cannot think out the problem; therefore, I go to somebody and say ‘please tell me’ to a Shankara or Buddha or to me or to a dozen people. What is the meaning of the good world [word]? If I can think it out, go into it, understand it, then perhaps I will have real enlightenment.

(Here somebody said that the questioner meant ‘word’ not ‘world'[Note that in the original typescript the ‘l’ in word has been added and ‘l’ in world deleted. WS-08]). So, the question is what is the good world [word]? Does that interest you all? What do we mean by ‘good world’ [word]? This is really very important, if you will really go into this. The word has a meaning, has it not? A word has a reference. Take the word ‘dog’. ‘Dog’ implies the dog, the green dog implies the green dog. The word has an extraordinary meaning. A word like God or love or sacrifice like the word ‘India’, has great significance, is it not.? If I use the word ‘God’ because you think you believe in God, it has a meaning to you, nervously you react to that word, psychologically you respond to that word and if I do not believe in God, what stupid nonsense that word is if I have been trained in atheism or communism in which I do not believe, in which I believe in no God, that word ‘God’ reacts, to that word I react as you react to the word ‘God’ I react whatever your God differently. It is a word and that word has a meaning to it. It might have no meaning to me. What do you mean by good word [world]? There is no good world, it is a rotten world. The fact is it is rotten, because there are wars, there are divisions of people, the upper, the higher and the lower, the authority, the prime minister and the poor cook, the big politician and the starving man, the king who has got everything and the other fellow has nothing. It is a rotten world. There is no good world. So, you see we are caught by the word ‘good’ and ‘world’. We have to create a world which is good and we have to understand what that word ‘good’ implies. It is no good being carried away by the word ‘good world’. We are always taught from childhood what to think, but never how to think. There is a science called semantics, that is the meaning of words, it means Greek, it means the meaning of words. There is a whole science being developed now because words have meaning. They affect you mentally physically and it is very important to understand words and not be affected by the word ‘communist’ the moment a capitalist uses it, the other capitalist goes into a shiver about it. They are scared of that word like the word ‘revolution’. A man who has property, if you talk about revolution, he will throw you out like those who follow a guru. If you say ‘do not be silly’ they get scared, they want to throw you out. It is constant fear of words, not not understanding and after all, education is that, the understanding of words and the understanding of communication. Am I wandering too far away from what you ask? There is no such thing as ‘good world’. We must take things as they are and not idealise or have ideals, take things as they are, not what the world should be. You see the idea of having ideals, the person has ideals, the ideal school, the ideal country, the ideal headmaster, the ideal of non-violence, all rubbish, nonsense and ridiculous, they are all illusions, but what is real is actually what is. If I can understand the actual thing, as it is, the poverty, the degradation, the squalor, the ambition, the greediness, the corruption, fears, then I can deal with it, I can break it down. But to say ‘I should be this’ then we wander off into illusion. This country has been fed for centuries on ideals which is an illusion. You have been fed on non-violence when you are really violent. Why not understand violence and not non-violence? This is quite a revolution.

Question:- How to get, rid of fear?

Krishnaji- You have asked something which is how to get rid of fear? Do you know what you are afraid of? Go slowly with me. Fear is something in relation to something else. Fear does not exist by itself. It exists in relation to a snake, to what my parents might say, to a teacher, to death, it is in connection with something. Do you understand? If you understand that fear is not a thing by itself, it exists in contact, in relation, in touch with something else. Are you conscious, aware, know that you are afraid, afraid in relation to something else? Do you know? Do you know you are afraid? Are you not afraid of your parents, are you not afraid of your teachers. I hope not, but probably you are. Are you not afraid that you might not pass your examinations and are you not afraid that people should think of you nicely and decently and say what a great man you are. Are you not afraid, don’t you know your fears? I am trying to show how you have fear. You have lost interest already. So, first I must know what I am afraid of. I will explain to you very slowly. Then I must know also, the mind must know why it is afraid and is fear, which is getting more complicated, is fear something apart from the mind and does not the mind create fear, either because it has remembered or it projects itself in the future. You pester your teachers till they explain to you all these things. You spend an hour over a rotten mathematics and geography and all the rest of it and you spend two months [handwritten edit: ‘minutes’] about the most important problem of life. Should you not spend much more time over this with your teachers than merely discussing mathematics and reading a text book, how to be free from fear. You see, you have asked this question, your mind is not capable of following it. But the older people perhaps catch and that is what we are going to discuss with the teachers because the school based on fear of any kind of fear is a rotten school, it should not be and it requires a great deal of intelligence on the part of the teachers and of boys to understand this problem, because fear corrupts and to be free from fear, one has to understand it, how the mind creates fear, because there is no such thing as fear, but what the mind creates, because the mind wants shelter, the mind wants security, various forms of self protective ambition and as long as all that exists, you will have fear. That is very important, to understand ambition, to understand authority; they are all indication, of this germ which is destruction.

Question:- You say that fear corrupts the mind which is quite true, but is it also not true that that a corrupt minds creates fear, generates fear? So, the problem really appears to be that we have to tackle the mind, the corrupt mind of the present and yesterday, rather than tackle the uncorrupt mind of the future.

Krishnaji: You have understood the question, Damodar Babu says should we not eliminate the corrupt mind which is born of fear, the older minds which are so corrupted by fear, should we not eliminate which means what? Destroy them put them into concentration camps because all minds whether they are old or young are corrupted by fear either imposed from outside or self created Is it not a question of getting rid of somebody, that is what they are doing all over the world. If you do not agree with me, liquidate me, put me in concentration camp, that is not going to solve the problem. What is going to solve is the right kind of education which will help me to understand the problem of fear, how fear comes, how it comes from the past and how fear is created in the present, to be projected in the future. Sirs, do think about this, this is far more important than all your examinations, than your text books, than your degrees, B.A or M.A after your name, which means absolutely nothing, though they may get you a job, Rs.15 or 1000 more. They do not mean anything. What is wanted now is a revolution, a kind capable of thinking of all these problems differently, creating a new world, not how to liquidate the old people or the young people.