Public Talk 5, Bombay, 6 January 1960

TALK No. 5

6-1-1960

6.15 p.m. to 7.20 p.m.

There are several things that I would like to go into with you this evening — such as, sensitivity, mind and meditation.

Before we go into these things, it seems to me, it is very important to clear the mind, to have a clarity about the quality of the mind, the mind that is still. When there is no clarity, there is no capacity for the mind to think very clearly. Clarity, at whatever level, is completely necessary. If you are not clear about the way to your home, you get confused. If you are not clear, very clear about our feelings, there is a contradiction in our feelings. If we are not very clear of the ways of our thinking, such lack of clarity does lead to illusion. And clarity in every direction is essential, and it is one of the most difficult things, it seems to me, to be clear about everything, if one can. It is not a thing to cultivate, learn; but rather it comes through perception, through watching, through looking, and it seems to me — the clarity of which I am talking about is part of the sense of beauty — I do not know why it is, I am not judging at all that there are so few who appreciate or feel the sense of beauty — beauty of the Sunset, beauty of a face, beauty of a curve, beauty of a branch in the tree, a leaf fluttering in the wind, a bird on the wing, the beauty of the gesture, the beauty of a word. So few of us are aware of the sense of beauty. I am not talking about the expression as much as the feeling, the quality, the texture of beauty. I think beauty goes with clarity. Clarity is the sense of total being, as beauty is. Beauty is not merely the form, the face, it is the totality of human being, the totality of tree, the vastness of the sky, the light on the leaf, the moonlight on the water, it is a total thing — in the same way, clarity is not partial. You cannot be clear about economics, or how to get to the moon and be totally unclear about the ways of your own thinking, ways of your own customs, traditions, the operations of your own mind; in the same way you cannot see the beauty of a picture by going to a museum or hearing lovely music and the rest of the things when you are in contradiction. I think clarity is something that pervades the total human mind, feeling of one’s total being; so clarity surely means Sir, simplicity. We translate simplicity either as action or as behaviour, or in the manner of your speech or in the manner of your dress. We look to simplicity as an expression. You say that man is very simple because he has only a couple of clothes, he has renounced this or taken on that; we judge simplicity by the God; to me simplicity is no God, but the inward state of being, the approach to any problem, the quality of perception in which there is no contradiction, comparison, because life has got more and more complicated; there are more and more experts, each contradicting the other. And a mind that wants to comprehend this life with all its complexities of problem; surely, you must approach it very simply, very simply, not the simplicity of a mind that approaches a problem with one idea or one belief, or with a particular pattern of thought, because I think simplicity has nothing to do with determination, a mind that is determined is never a simple mind. Do please listen to all this, because when you understand what I am talking now, you will begin to understand when I will talk about mind, meditation; because without understanding or grasping, or feeling this quality of clarity, simplicity and beauty, the quality, the feeling — not how to be simple, how to be clear, what is beautiful and all that — but the feeling of simplicity, the feeling of the quality, an extraordinary sense of beauty, because without that you cannot possibly understand this extraordinary complex machinery which you call the Mind; we have already ideas about the mind, we have idea, conclusion what the mind is, or what it should be and so we approach the mind already with a conclusion, with a belief, with a point of view, and it is very difficult thing for an average person to understand this complex machinery, because first of all he is not very simple. Simplicity is, surely, a mind that works, thinks, feels without a motive. Do please, pay a little attention to what is being said. You may have heard the previous talks, or you may have read what has been said already, but do please listen to find out, to experience, as you are listening now, this living, this feeling, action of life in which there is no motive. Where there is a motive there must be a way, a method, system, a practice, a discipline. The motive is brought about by the urge for an end, for a goal, for a purpose, and to achieve that purpose that goal, there must be discipline, a way — and such a mind is not a simple mind, such a mind is not a clear mind, because such a mind creates conflict within itself; but if one can perceive that very simply, that where there is a motive, there is a contradiction in living. It is not how to free the mind, that is not the problem; the problem is how to see, how do we perceive, how to be aware of the fact now — that motive implies contradiction in existence, because to me meditation is freeing of the mind of all motives, and therefore of all disciplines, of all goals, ends, and that requires an astonishing attention to the problem of discipline, of motive, of goals, of systems, practices, disciplines. Pause…

So, I would like to, not only describe the mind, but also be aware of the nature of the mind, mind is not merely the contents, but the mind is also the thing which it contains and also the limitations which time has placed upon it, but also something which is not of time. If possible, — mere description of the mind does not give the quality of the mind, a good mind which functions like a good machinery is one of the qualities, surely, of the mind, the capacity to reason clearly without prejudice, without conclusions, the capacity of the intellect to discern without prejudice is also a part of the mind; the mind is also the sense of a feeling to be distinct, the mind is also memory, remembrance, the quality of experiencing and storing that experience as knowledge, mind is time of things, as that have been, and that will be, the time before, the time after. All these things are the Mind, but also the mind is something, surely, covering all this, something which is not merely the word, and the recognition of that word. Mind surely is like the sky, in which everything is contained, mind is the totality of everything, the trees, not merely the leaf, flower, the branch, the trunk, the root, but the tree is the total thing, and to be able to feel the totality of the mind, to feel it is really the beginning of Meditation. To know the limitations of the mind, and the expanse of the mind, to know the contradiction of the mind, to be able to reason logically without any illusion, without any prejudice, to reason, without conclusions, to reason without the beginning of a conclusion, surely all these are part of the mind — but that is not all the mind. Then, if that is the only mind, then we reduce the mind as a mere machine, which it is for most of us. For most of us mind is word, a word being the symbol, the image, the naming, all this out of background of remembrance, memory, experiences, and this is the machinery which you call Mind, I learn, my mind learns today a certain job, to function in a certain profession and it functions automatically; I establish certain relationship with my wife, society, with children, with my husband and after establishing a certain relationship mechanically I function. My response is to various stimuli which are mechanical, because my mind does not want to be disturbed, made uncertain, made to question; so it establishes patterns of behaviour, patterns of thought, patterns of conduct, relationship to nature, relationship to man and mechanical things. This is surely obvious for most of us if we at all observe them or watch into the nature of our own minds. Because you see, the word, how sensitive we are to a word. How sensitive we are to the word Love, to word God, to the word communism, the word India, or Gita, and how slavish the mind is to the word, that is, the mini invents symbols and becomes slave to the symbol, and then symbols become far more important than the action of living. Please Sirs, — I am not describing something foreign, I am describing something which is actually taking place with each one of us, and I do not see how a mind can delve deeply within itself if it is not free of these symbols, of these words; these words which are the outcome of our memories, of our experience. So the mind that accumulates knowledge, which is essentially the symbol, the word; if such a mind is not able to free itself from the memory, from the symbol, from the word which is all knowledge, then it can never be free to delve into the wider fields of the mind. I cannot obviously forget’ the things which I know, I cannot forget English, I cannot forget the way to my house, where I stay, I cannot forget the process of recognition; I must have all this. I cannot forget the profession, the technique which has been developed through science; I cannot forget all that; but that is all the part of the machinery which projects in Time, as the future, which is the goal, which I do not know. So the mind as we know is Time; mind is the result of Time — the Time before, before and the time after, the time which is the past and the time which is the future, obviously denies the present time. Time being, I am not talking of chronological or psychological necessity for time, which we call the gradual process which we call the evolution, I must have time to understand, time being the future. I hope I am making all this clear, and not complicated — but life is complicated, mind is complicated. One has to look to all these problems, one cannot say: help me to be free of Time. What one can do surely is to be aware of all these patterns of the mind, and slip through them, as it were, to a quality which is not merely measured by the mind, because whatever the mind does, will always be within the field of Time. Effort which mind makes will limit the mind, effort implies a goal, an effort implies struggle towards the goal, and therefore, where there is the goal, end, purpose, you are limiting the Mind and so with that mind we are trying to meditate. You understand Sir? First, please see the problem. The problem is not how to meditate or on what to meditate; but does the mind know what meditation is? or is it capable of meditation at all? Sir, am I making the problem clear? We have been told that we must meditate, and so through meditation we hope to achieve result, happiness, God, truth and all that; so we make effort. So we introduce — where there is effort there is quality of time and so we say, you say through time, through discipline, through a goal, through control, we will achieve understood what God is — so we introduce the gradual process of Time.

To me that is not meditation at all. It is sheer self-hypnosis, a projection of one’s own illusions and experiences which give you visions; but to understand what meditation is, surely, you must understand the nature of the mind that approaches the problem. I want to meditate because I can see the extraordinary nature of meditation; there is certain sense of beauty, there is certain quality of peace of silence; I want to meditate I want to control, I want to discipline, hoping to realise this extraordinary quality of silence.

Now, before I can understand what silence, what truth, what God, whatever that is, I must understand the mind which is meditating. You see the problem? otherwise, whatever it will do, it still is playing within the field of its own knowledge, and playing within the field of its own knowledge; you will have capacities, visions and you will do this and that; but it is a form of delusion, and if you like it, accept it, keep on playing with it. But if you really want to find out what Meditation is, surely you must enquire whether the mind which approaches the problem, is capable of understanding the problem – not merely how to meditate or what to do. So the mind I see is mechanical. Whatever it touches it becomes mechanical; I do not know if you realise it. I see something new this evening, totally new, and that newness is experienced and tomorrow that experience becomes mechanical, because I want that sensation, that pleasure, that newness and I say: what am I to do to capture that newness. So I establish a process to acquire that newness; so I set up a method; so it becomes mechanical; everything mechanical whatever the mind touches; it inevitably becomes non-creative.

So, the problem is, is it not, can my mind realise the nature of its own mechanical habits? realise, not how to change it, not how to break it down, just to be aware of the fact, of what it is and I think the realisation of the fact, the actual fact what it is, is clarity. Pause…

I think this is important to understand; you see most of us move from what is to what should be, and that brings great many problems and contradictions. I just want to know what is. that is all, nothing else. I am not interested in what should be or what will, but what is. In the same way I want to know what is of my mind, as it is, with all its contradictions, with all its jealousies, despairs, hopes, aggressiveness, capacity to deceive, envy, actually what it is. The moment I see actually what it is, there is a clarity, clarity which will help me to go much deeper into what is. Pause…

For us what is, is not of interest; for us what is does not open up the capacity to enter into what is. We think we shall have the capacity if we have an ideal, if we can transform what is into what should be. and this should be we think awakens the capacity. I feel quite the other way. The real capacity comes into being when I know how to delve into what is. Do please pay a little attention to what is being said, because all existence, all existence is what is and not what should be; “the should be” has no reality whatsoever. The ideal has no reality, the real in the sense you may create an ideal and call it reality, and be committed to that reality which you call the ideal; but it is the reaction to what is, and reaction is never the real, though you may call it real. The real is what is. that is existence; the what is may be produced by the past and what is may have the future, but to separate the mind — for the mind to separate the past and the future and be concerned with the present, with what is and to go into it profoundly, not just remain by saying, that is my life, that is so, life is that and so on. Life is this extraordinary thing which is past — the time before — and the time after, the future; but life is much more wider, deeper, has more profound significance, if through the present I can penetrate, the mind can go into it.

You see, to put it differently: all experiencing is conditioned by the past experience; but if one observes there is only the state of experiencing, which later is translated into memory, and that memory conditions future experiencing. My background as a Hindu or what you will, with all its cultures, superstitions, with that background, conditions all experiencing, and experiencing is the only state and not the quality of experience conditioned by the past. You will get it perhaps, as I talk about it; but talking is not the experiencing.

The description is never the real; what is real is seeing the truth instantaneously, because truth has no future, you cannot say: I will capture it tomorrow. Truth has no past, it has no continuity, and that is the beauty of truth and the simplicity and the clarity.

So, the mind which is mechanical is now investigating what meditation is, and wants to reduce meditation into the terms of the ‘known’; after all the mind is the known, it is nothing else; the mind is the known. The mind is not the “unknown”, and the mind which is the known tries to find out what is the unknown, and therefore, we have methods, systems, practices, disciplines to uncover the ‘unknown’. I hope you are following somewhat. Pause.. Now, the problem is not how the machinery which is the “known”, how is it to find out the “unknown”, it cannot. What it can do is to be aware of the process of the “known”, and it cannot do anything else. It cannot proceed to uncover the unknown; it cannot do, what it will, it has no capacity. Stand on your head, breathe in different ways, practice, discipline, hold your nose, control, do whatever you will, whatever the mind does, can never understand or capture or feel the UNKNOWN- Pause…

So, then what is meditation? You understand? What is meditation? Now, Sirs, as I describe please follow it, as though you are meditating, because to me meditation is of the highest importance, because all life is meditation — all life is meditation, in the sense of living in which the frontiers of the mind are broken down, in which there is no Self, the Centre, and therefore no frontier, no circumference, and without meditation life becomes very shallow, mechanical; so meditation is necessary, essential, as food, as breathing. So please follow it, not verbally, but actually experiencing, as we go along, not interjecting, not introducing what you have been taught about meditation, what you have read about meditation, because then you are not observing, you are not experimentally following. Meditation, surely can never be concentration, because all negative thinking is the highest form of thinking; positive thinking is destructive to enquiry, to discovery. I am thinking out aloud negatively and through negation there is Creation; it is only when the mind is completely negative — that is, not the opposite of the positive, but a state of negation, in which there is no positive, or its reaction as the negative, but in a state of complete emptiness. Then, there is creation, then whatever is born out of that emptiness is negative thinking, which is not confined by the mind, that is positive or negative.

So, concentration is not meditation. Concentration is, as you observe, exclusion — please follow this Sirs -Exclusion, and where there is an exclusion there is a centre end so there is a thinker, who excludes and so, the thinker, the excluder, the one who concentrates, creates contradiction, and so there is a deviation, a distraction, because there is a centre. So when you see this, rather perceive the truth of it, concentration is not the way to meditation, concentration is not the way to the uncovering of whatever that thing called the immeasurable; you understand Sir, because you see the true concentration implies exclusion; concentration implies the thinker, who is making an effort to exclude and to concentrate upon something, but there is attention which is not concentration to attend which means really giving your whole being to something, in which there is no exclusion. Pause..

Giving….You don’t give Sirs, sorry. Pause…..That state of attention which has no frontier — now will you please experiment with something as I am talking? Give, be in that state of attention in which not only your mind is functioning, but your whole being is awakened. Don’t say: what is my whole being -can I attend so fully? — It does not matter. Pause… Give your whole attention which means hearing that noise, the bus, tramcar, listening to the silence, give your whole attention to it, then you will see that you are also listening to what is being said, with an astonishing attention, with astonishing focus, acumen, whereas, if you merely concentrate, there is no attention, there is an exclusion. So concentration is narrowing down the mind, and when you narrow down the mind it is very effective as in the case of a school-boy in a class, but when we are concerned with the total process of living, total process of living, concentration on any particular aspect of life, belittles life. Whereas, when there is this quality of attention, then life is something endless, has no measure; it cannot be measured by my mind; and also you have been told that there are different ways to meditate on Reality, on God, whatever word that you use; how can you have ways, methods, systems to something that is Living ? You have ways, methods, systems to something that is Dead, static. You understand? something static. To something static there is a way, a definite way, a definite process, but to something that is living, you cannot have a system. You understand Sir? If you want to understand your neighbour, your friend, your wife, there is no way to it, because wife, friend, neighbour is living human being. So you can never say: I know my wife, I know my neighbour, I know my friend. To a living, dynamic thing, there is no method, no way. So we have reduced Reality. God, whatever you like to call, to something that is static, and thereby invented methods.

So, concentration is not the way, nor the method, systems, practices; if you see the truth of it, that no system of any kind however, subtle, however, remarkable, however clear, — if you see the truth of that you will never enter into that field, and seeing the truth of it, that no system can ever give you that extraordinary thing called Reality, your mind is already broken lose from its moorings of the past. Therefore it is already in a state of meditation. Pause…Pause…..

Then, in meditation there is also a problem of the Unknown. The mind, as I said, is the Known. The known being experience, that which is experienced. Now, with that measure we proceed to enter the Unknown. Obviously, the known can never enter the unknown. Known can only measure what it has experienced, what it has been taught, what it knows. So, it cannot know through measure, the Unknown. It cannot measure. So can the mind, — please follow this Sirs carefully — can the mind see the Truth of the incapacity to know the Unknown?

The Known cannot know the Unknown. So, do I, as I listen, do I experience? It is incapacity and therefore absolute quietness. You understand Sirs? If I feel that I can capture the Unknown with the capacities of the Known, then I am making lot of noise, then I am choosing, then I am talking, then I am enquiring, then I am trying to find out a way to it; but if the mind realises that with its quality which is the nature of its “Known-ness”, it cannot know the Unknown; it cannot know the Unknown; but mind realises its absolute incapacity; it perceives the total lack of movement on the path, total absence, total sense that, that it is hopeless…it cannot do a thing towards the Unknown. Pause… Then what happens? Pause…

Then the mind becomes utterly quiet, it is not in despair, because it is not seeking anything, because the moment I introduce the search I can only search from the known to the known. All that the mind can do is to be aware of any movement from the known, be aware, perceive; such movement cannot uncover or invite the Unknown. Any movement on the part of the Known is still within the field of the Known. That is the only thing I have to perceive in the Unknown. That is the only thing that I have to realise, the mind has to realise. Pause…

Then, the mind without any stimulation, without any purpose is silent. Have you ever noticed that Love is Silence? I may hold the hand, or look lovingly at the child, or taking the beauty of an evening. As Love has no past nor future, so is this extraordinary thing of Silence. Pause… And without this silence there is no Creation; without this silence which is complete emptiness, there is no Centre; creation cannot be; where there is no creation there is destruction, there is decay, the mind withers away. You may be very clever, in your capacity, but a mind that is not empty, a mind that is not silent, a mind that is not in a state of total negation, negation which is not the opposite of the positive, a total different state of complete void, not blankness, in which all thought has completely, totally ceased, it is only then, surely that which is not nameable, comes into being.