Public Talk 3, Bombay, 14 December 1969

Krishnamurti: [Pause] Sorry, I forgot!

There are so many things that one has to talk about, so many complex problems that one has to observe and learn about. And, as we were saying the other day, to learn is to observe. The scientist observes through his microscope. He doesn’t bring in his personality, his idiosyncrasies, his prejudices or his conclusions; he looks through at it, through it very carefully, and he has to prove what he sees to other scientists. The scientist and the other scientists must see the same thing, otherwise it is not a new discovery, a new understanding. And so, if we may this evening, we are going to observe very carefully, as the scientists do, with all the many problems that we have — not with your particular prejudice or your conclusion, or what you have already learnt or will learn but merely observe. And that’s one of the most difficult things, it appears, just to watch, so that you see things as they are, not twist them to suit your particular inclination, to your particular fancy, but to observe is to learn and to act.

And one of the major problems is this question of violence that exists throughout the world, that man is violent. You have had it in this country quite recently, the appalling thing that went on in a town nearby, murdering children, racial prejudice, religious prejudices, bigotry, and there is violence everywhere. And with violence goes aggression and all the brutality, the ugliness of life. It is an evil thing — if one can use that word — to be really violent — really quite dreadful. And man apparently has not been able to rid himself of this aggression, brutality, cruelty, violence. He has preached and talked a great deal about non-violence, the ideal which has led him to a great many hypocritical activities. So why are we violent? Not as an idea but actually, why is a human being so extraordinarily clever, so capable technologically, doing the most astonishing things, why a human being, you and I and the rest of the world, why is it that we are violent?

One can give many, many explanations — that one has inherited it from the animal, the social structure, the education, the division between man and man, the division brought about by nationality, religious dogmas, beliefs, the religious propaganda, the innumerable divisions which inevitably does bring about conflict and therefore violence. You know, description is not the described, explanation is not that which is explained. And yet we know all this, if we have, one has observed it in oneself — why is it we are violent and why is it that we cannot be completely, totally free of it? This is a very important question. Man has fought with this question for millions of years — violence as opposed to peace, aggression to compassion, goodness to evil, the sense of being compassionate, kind, generous, opposing to greed, stinginess, lack of generosity. We have lived amidst this duality, conflict, all our lives.

And one asks, as you must ask, the more society is becoming complex, technology is advancing so rapidly, why is it that we remain as we have been for thousands of years? Unless we answer this question, not verbally but in our own heart, not explain it away or justify it but to see that we are violent — in our speech, in our gesture, in our activity. When we are ambitious, we are violent, when we are competitive we are violent, when we are trying to conform to a pattern, forcing ourselves to think in a certain way, we are violent. And if you ask yourself why, and is it possible to be free of it? We are going to find out, we are going to learn about it. You are not going to be told by the speaker how to be free from violence, but rather we are, both of us, going to observe through the microscope of the scientist, through the microscope of our own observation, why this enormous weight of violence with its guilt we live in.

You know, one of the things that most of us lack is the sense of beauty. Beauty implies great sensitivity, not only organically, physically, but also great sensitivity of the heart and the mind, because to be sensitive implies to be intelligent, not intellectual. Intelligence implies an understanding of the whole total movement of life, not the broken-up life, not the fragmented parts of life but the whole movement of living. And unless one is aware of the extraordinary beauty of the earth, of nature, of the clouds, the light on the water, the beauty of a solitary tree in a field, the beauty, the richness of a rice field, the beauty of a face, the beauty of a smile and the sadness of tears, not only your tears but the tears of another, the laughter — unless one is aware, sensitive to all this, to the squalor, to the dirt, to the poverty, to the brutality, the utter callousness — unless you are aware of all this with passion, you will never understand what violence is and be free of it.

See the relationship between violence and beauty. And we are going to learn tonight, this evening, what this beauty is — not only the visual beauty, the beauty that the eye sees in a building, in a face, in a bird on the wing, in a flower, but also the beauty of clear, unspotted perception, to see things exactly as they are, not according to your temperament. Because in India they have divided, I don’t know why, the human mind or human intelligence into the various types of yoga — you know, karma yoga, bhakti yoga and jnana yoga, and all that business. And so we think we must approach… the man of action, he must approach life through action only, and so he sees life only through action. Or the devotee, if there is such a person, which I doubt very much — he is sentimental, emotional, but that’s not devotion — the devotee thinks he can find or see through or observe very clearly only through devotion, or understand this whole movement and the beauty of the movement of life through knowledge. Surely, these divisions of human mind not only create contradiction and opposition but also bring about conflict within itself. And such a mind is incapable of observation, to see things exactly as they are. If you as a devotee or as a very learned, intellectual man of great knowledge, look through the microscope at the life flowing by, you’ll only see it through that particular narrow pattern of your existence. So to observe, one must abandon all these divisions. And if the scientist observes with a conclusion then he doesn’t see what is actually taking place.

So, if you will this afternoon or this evening put aside your particular little conditioning, your particular little temperament, whether you are very clever, very learned or you think you are a great devotee. You know, the devotee is the most cruel person because there is a division between himself and the thing he is devoted to. So where there is division there must be cruelty. He may cry, he may be over-emotional, sentimental, put garlands round somebody’s neck or around the idol, or go into dithery state of emotionalism, but such a devotee not only destroys himself but also spoils that word ‘devotion’. Similarly, the intellectual, because he also sees life only through that little pattern of the intellect.

So if you could put aside all that and observe that human beings are violent — not the American or the Hindu or the Muslim, but human beings. And the human being, being violent, anger, jealousy, competitive spirit, he obviously doesn’t see the beauty, the beauty of life. He only knows sorrow, the guilt, the terrible loneliness of life and existence, the life that has no meaning whatsoever as it is lived. So to understand, to observe, there must be this sense of sensitivity of the mind, the heart and the brain — not only physical sensitivity — and most of us have not the physical sensitivity, because we over-indulge, either sexually or our appetites, food. Have you ever observed how you eat, what quantities you put away? How can you have a very delicate, sensitive body which is tremendously alive?

So we are going to enquire, learn together, which is really communicate about what is love. Please bear in mind all the time that the description is not the described, the word is never the thing — however much the speaker may explain, what he explains is not the explained, the thing that you see. So to understand this word, the meaning of that word, what lies behind that word, one has to be free, free of violence. And you cannot be free of violence if there is no sensitivity to the beauty of everything about you, sensitive to the word. So there must be freedom to find out what is love.

You know, that word is a dangerous word. Freedom for most people is to do what they like to do, driven by their appetites, and to fulfil those appetites in different ways. They demand freedom, freedom from social restrictions, social morality. Social morality — please listen carefully — social morality is immorality, is immoral. Do you accept that? You are all so silent, aren’t you. Social morality is respectability, and nothing else. You can be socially moral and yet deceive your neighbour, go to war, be ambitious, greedy, envious, angry — all that is tolerated, admitted, and yet be moral. As long as you comply, conform, imitate the pattern of the established morality, you are considered moral. So social morality is immorality. It’s not what the speaker says; observe it in your life and you will see how immoral you are. You may be respectably married, go to the church or the temple or the mosque, but inwardly, deeply, you are not only ambitious, greedy, violent, but everlastingly in conflict within yourself.

So, freedom is necessary to learn together what love is. ‘Freedom from’ is one thing and freedom for itself is another. Freedom from something is not freedom; it’s only a reaction. To have freedom — let’s say, what? — from anger is not freedom. Freedom to do what you like is not freedom. But to find out the extraordinary complications of freedom, to learn about it, which means a mind that has never a conclusion, never a formula, it is only such a mind that is free. Through negation of what is not freedom there is freedom. You cannot have freedom as a positive act.

You know, as we were saying the other day, by understanding what is disorder, learning about it — learning, not saying ‘this is disorder or order,’ learning, which means enquiring, studying, observing, watching, listening to your own disorders within yourself and outwardly. So, learning about disorder and denying that disorder, there is order. You know, order is virtue — not the virtue that you have cultivated; virtue cannot be cultivated. Virtue is not a conclusion, it is that quality of mind that has put away disorder, has understood it, has completely learnt what disorder is, which is effort, conflict, struggle — and through the negation of that comes the movement of order. And therefore that order is a constant movement, living thing, therefore cannot be put in a pattern, into a framework.

So, freedom is that quality of mind in which the total sense of the negation of everything that man has put together psychologically, which means all his conclusions — that there is God, that there is no God, this is moral, this is not moral, that a man of God must not look at a woman — those are all conclusions. And through the negation of that, which means you in your daily life deny all that, that means your mind is no longer pursuing or acting or living according to a conclusion. That is real freedom.

So, with that, we are going to learn — as we said the other day what learning is — what is love? Learn, that is, communicate with each other. You are not learning from the speaker. He is not teaching you what love is; love cannot be taught. You cannot cultivate it, but, again, to find out what it is, you have to find out what it is not. Through negation there is the positive. But if you pursue the positive you will never find it. And your positive is always based on a conclusion. So, together we are going to learn. And to learn means to observe — not according to your temperament, not according to your particular prejudice, conclusion, or even your experience or observation — to observe without a conclusion so that you and the speaker see the same thing at the same time with the same intensity, which means with the same passion. Otherwise communication ceases; otherwise there is no learning.

One also has to find out, learn, what fear is, because where there is fear of any kind, obviously there cannot be this quality, this extraordinary thing called love. And to learn about fear requires a very subtle mind. If you say, ‘I must get rid of fear,’ ‘I must have courage,’ you will never be free of fear. Because to come, to say, ‘I must be courageous,’ is a decision based on a conclusion. And a mind that acts according to a conclusion is the most destructive mind, like a mind that says, ‘I am a Hindu,’ is the most stupid mind. Because the moment you have said you are a Parsi, a Hindu, a Muslim, God knows what else, you separate yourself and therefore create a division and therefore conflict.

So to understand fear — understand it, learn about it, not from the speaker but through your own observation as you are sitting there, looking at your own fears, whether they are hidden or open — not only physical fears, the fear that you may fall ill again and have pain again, and the hidden forms of fear, losing a job, fear of your husband, wife, death, fear of what the neighbour might say about you, fear of all the incidents, experiences of the past, fear of the future — you know, the fear that each one has — to learn about it. And to learn about fear, you must also learn about pleasure, because these two go together. They are two sides of the same coin — isn’t it? You are observing through the microscope, I hope, learning by observing that where there is the pursuit of pleasure, which is entirely different from joy, from ecstasy, which has nothing whatsoever to do with pleasure. So one has to learn not only about pleasure but also about fear.

What is pleasure? Please, this is very important to understand, because we are going to go into something which you won’t like. What is pleasure? You have had the experience of a delight yesterday, looking at that sunset or the pleasure of your sexual expression — there it is! Please observe it, learn. You see that sunset and you remember that sunset; you have had sexual pleasure and you remember that pleasure. When you see that sunset, at that moment there is no interference of thought. Right? Then thought comes along and says, ‘What a lovely thing that was, I wish I could have it again.’ Thought gives a continuity, nourishment to that particular experience, to that particular incident, to that particular sensuous delight, thinking about it, creating images, chewing over it. So thought cultivates pleasure as thought cultivates fear. Something happened yesterday which gave pain, and not to be repeated again tomorrow. Thought, thinking about that pain, not wanting it tomorrow is the same thing as thought thinking about that pleasurable… that incident which gave pleasure, thinking about it, hoping for it to happen again tomorrow is the same thing as having had physical or psychological pain yesterday, thinking about it, not wanting it tomorrow.

So thought breeds both fear and pleasure. And human beings throughout history, morally, and physically, have pursued pleasure. Your gods, your rituals, your morality are based on pleasure. And pleasure has become extraordinarily important. We are not saying pleasure is wrong, we are not condemning it, we are looking at it. Therefore we are not saying it’s right or wrong, to be encouraged or discouraged. We are learning about it. Pleasure — pleasure of a physical sensation, pleasure of a flattering word, pleasure of possession, whether it is furniture, piece of furniture or a bank account, the pleasure of a position, the pleasure of being highly respectable, which is highly immoral — which doesn’t mean you must become… you can do what you like — the pleasure of having a good meal, the pleasure of having a good position.

So, we are pursuing pleasure. And you say a religious man must have no pleasure. Right? That is, he must be chaste, he must have no sexual relationship. You clothe him with a peculiar garment, with a peculiar colour and you hang this round his neck — chastity — and he, the poor man, accepts that as the way to find God, if there is such a thing, and he becomes highly respectable. And you, who are also highly respectable, say a man of God must not touch a woman. Right? This is the conclusion right throughout the world — to find God — please listen — to find God, you must be chaste, you mustn’t touch a woman or a man. Right? Just think what you have done. You can have as much as you like but the religious man can’t. And if the religious man, with that robe, does have, you condemn, you boil up. And the poor man, he is also boiling inside; he wants it. So his religion, his conditioning has said, ‘Don’t look at a woman, don’t have pleasure,’ therefore don’t look at the beautiful sky, don’t look at the lovely movement of a tree, don’t look at the squalor, filth in a road, don’t look at the light on a leaf, because all that might give you pleasure. This is the standard morality of the so-called man of God. He shuts his eyes to everything, and inwardly he is tortured because he is a human being, a physical organism, his glands are working. And therefore he is tortured, his mind is twisted, and you expect a mind that is tortured, twisted, distorted, to find reality. How childish it is! How murderous you people are! There is violence. All your mahatmas and your saints have said no; and they live in torture, and a tortured mind cannot look. What it sees is distorted, and therefore its gods are distorted.

And why has sex become so extraordinarily important in life? Have you ever asked yourself, or you just shut your eyes from all this, ears? Why? Not only in Europe, America and here, but everywhere. There it’s more open, here it’s all undercover, don’t talk about it, don’t look at it. And if you ask why throughout the world sex and love go together — why? Why has it become so extraordinarily important? Not only has it has become important because it’s pleasurable, and also because intellectually you are slaves. Do listen to all this carefully, observe it. Intellectually you repeat what other people have said. Right? You are very good at quoting, very good at memorising, and that’s your education, to learn by heart what somebody, book says, and you pass an exam, get a job and the rest of it. So intellectually, which is the capacity to think clearly, independently, logically, with great reason, objectively, without fear — therefore intellectually you are dead. You may have a technique, learnt a new technique to run a computer or go into big business, but the mind, the quality of the mind that is free, investigating, searching, asking, looking, doubting — intellectually you are utterly immature. And emotionally, you live within a pattern — what is right, what is wrong, this is good, this is bad, frightened. So intellectually, emotionally, you are not free. You are second-hand human beings and therefore you have only one thing left — sex. And that too you are frightened of because you are living in a pattern, saying if you want to find truth, don’t look at a woman or a man. And that you call love. You understand what you have done — sex and love go together. And is love pleasure, is love desire? So to find what love is you have to see what fear is and what pleasure is — not condemn it — understand it, feel it with your heart.

So to learn about pleasure and fear is the first thing, how your mind lives in pleasure and therefore invites fear. If you can’t have your pleasure tomorrow, you are frightened, you are angry, you are brutal. There begins violence, there begins your defence, your resistance, and thereby your fear. So unless you understand this quality of a mind that looks and learns, doesn’t function in formulas, in concepts.

So, what is love? You understand? You are asking the question, not the speaker. In your life, if you observe, you have no beauty. You may hang a picture on a wall if you are fairly rich, or you may go to an art gallery and talk endlessly about art, or to a concert and talk about music — and the more you talk about, the more empty your heart is. So what is love? Surely, love is the dying of everything that man has put together as the formula of what love is — to die to the past. That means to love means to live in the movement of the present. Oh, you don’t understand all this, do you? You know, sirs, what it means to live in the present? Living in the present, it means to see — to see in the microscope, not according to your wish or my wish, to see in the microscope how the past flows through the present and explodes into the future? But the explosion is always within a certain area. And how can a mind that is conditioned by the past, operating in the present, being modified by circumstance, strains, and so on, and flowing into the future. So we are living as human beings in the past all the time, though modified. We are the past. Aren’t you? When you say, ‘I am,’ or when you say, ‘I will be,’ or ‘I will become,’ it is always in terms of the past, of what you have been, what you were.

So a mind that lives in the past doesn’t know what love is. The past may be the past experience of your sexual pleasure, which thought thinks about, builds an image, and according to that image it is going to get excited and act. So love — not the description, don’t learn by heart the description but see what love is — that a mind that is caught in the net of the past doesn’t know what it means to live and therefore to love. Therefore to die to the past, die completely. Not fight it, but see the truth that as long as the mind is caught in the image of the past, how can the heart live in the present? And love is in the present, not tomorrow. Therefore it cannot be cultivated, therefore it is not at the behest of time. So the mind that is free of time comes to that feeling, to that movement of what is called love.

So to find out, to learn, there must be freedom from violence, there must be great sensitivity to beauty, whether it is the beauty of a woman or a man, the face, or the beauty of a lovely tree. And the understanding, the learning with your heart and mind, the whole structure and nature of pleasure and fear, therefore understanding, learning what is order. It’s only such a mind, such a heart can come upon this word — which is so heavily loaded and spoiled — what love is. Because love means passion. That word ‘passion’ comes from the root word which means sorrow. We don’t mean that. Passion — to be intense about something, to have this intensity. And it’s only then with the dying there is the living. You must die to yesterday to live today, and then there is love.

[Pause]

Before you ask any question, you have heard all this, this evening, for an hour. You have looked, you have observed, and perhaps are learning. And you have been given a piece of earth, and what are you going to do with that earth? You have been given — nobody gives it to you, you have yourself discovered it — it’s only given in the sense you have found a treasure — and what are you going to do with that treasure? Put it in your pocket, or intellectually discuss about it? What are you going to do with it? If you have a piece of earth, you cultivate it, you grow things on it. To grow things on it, you must have energy, passion, drive, intensity. This you have discovered, you have learnt. And are you going to just keep it at the intellectual level, or going to live it and therefore the treasure becomes extraordinarily clear, more vibrant, alive?

So, that’s the question I would like to ask, the speaker would like to ask: what are you going to do? You have lived ten years, thirty years or eighty years, what have you done with your life? Yes, sir. Don’t say, ‘I am going to fulfil next life.’ There is only the present, the beauty of the present, the richness of the present. You have had this life, this extraordinary thing called life, in which there is sorrow, pleasure, fear, guilt, and all the tortures and the loneliness and the despair of life, and the beauty of life. You have had it, and what have you done with it? Do consider it. And it’s very important to ask and to answer it, not to the speaker, to yourself. When you ask it, don’t go to bed with sorrow because you have done nothing. You have done absolutely nothing. A life was given to you, the most precious thing in the world, and what have you done? Distorted it, tortured it, torn it to pieces, divided it, brought about violence, destruction, hatred, without love, without compassion, without passion.

So when you ask — and I hope you are asking seriously what you have done with your life — when you ask that question, inevitably, if you are at all sensitive, you will have tears in your eyes. But you will have tears because you are thinking of the past, what you might have done; tears of self-pity. So don’t have tears, for the question is asked, and the answer lies only in the present, not tomorrow or in the past. Which means what are you doing now with your life that has been given? Now, not tomorrow. And if you can answer it you will find out what love is.

Do you want to ask any questions?

Questioner: Sir, you have drawn a universal conclusion for yourself that a man of God should not touch a woman or enjoy worldly pleasures. That’s a mere hearsay, whereas we have found that men of God have had more than one woman and have enjoyed worldly pleasures too. What have you got to say to that?

K: The gentleman says, ‘You have come to a universal conclusion, which is, godly man must remain, must have chastity in his heart,’ and this gentleman says — please correct me if I am wrong — that there have been godly men who have married and have had sex — what do you say about that.

Q: He wasn’t listening very well to what you said.

K: The gentleman answers you, sir. He says you haven’t been listening very well.

Q: Sir, I don’t want his answer!

K: Sir, sir, sir, don’t, don’t, don’t become rough, sir, please.

Q: Not at all.

K: Just wait, sir, just a minute, sir, just a minute. His answer is as good as my answer. Why do you say you mustn’t listen, you don’t want to listen to his answer? So, you see what you are doing? You won’t listen to anybody. You have already established the pattern of authority.

So, sir, what is important, not sex — that is part of life — what is important is to find out, learn what love is, anew, not what you think love is. To find out for yourself as though for the first time on this earth the beauty of it. Therefore you can never condemn anything.

Q: What is the difference between pleasure and joy?

K: What is the difference between pleasure and joy.

Do you want a description of it? Do you want me to define what pleasure is and what joy is? Haven’t you had pleasures in your life? And you know how they come? They’ve always a drive, a motive, a past, don’t they? Pleasure always has its root in the past, and therefore you can always have pleasure in the future. Therefore pleasure is of time. The pleasure of becoming something, achieving something. That achievement, gain and so on, are within the field of time, which is the past, through the present to the future. That is pleasure, isn’t it? You have had pleasure yesterday; you will have it today and tomorrow.

Now, is joy anything to do with time? You can invite pleasure, you can cultivate pleasure. Can you cultivate joy? Can you invite it? Can you say, ‘I will have it tomorrow’? Or does it come sweetly, uninvited, which is not the product or the interference of thought? Therefore it has no motive, it is there at its own sweet will, and it is not there also. But you cannot have it and say, ‘I was joyous, that extraordinary thing happened yesterday or this past minute, I must keep it, I must hold on to it,’ or say to yourself, ‘How am I going to get it again?’ When you do that you want pleasure, not joy. Joy can never be invited. It has no motive. It is not in the field of time, nor can it come with the invitation of thought. So there is this vast difference between the two. There is no relationship between the two. You cannot go from one to the other. But if you have joy, you know the beauty and the limitation of pleasure. But if you are pursuing pleasure, you will never know what joy is.

Q: How is it practically possible to live without family division?

K: How is it practically possible to live without family division. How to live practically without family division.

What is the most practical thing to do? To have no divisions. Right? Right? The most practical thing is to do it, not how to do it, because to you the family is divided. The family is you, your wife and your children, that group, that unit, and there is the other family, the wife, the husband, the children, that unit. And the community, which is composed of many, many, many families, all divided. Please listen. In that unit, in that family there is division also — the father, the mother, the father with his own ambitions, with his own drives, with his own appetites, with his own guilt, loneliness, his self-centred activities, enclosing himself, and the wife with her enclosing self-centred activities, and the children with their — all that. And this unit is called unified, harmonious home. Nonsense! [Laughter] You see, you laugh. Either you laugh because to find yourself in that position is laughable, or you laugh because you can’t face it, to avoid it. I don’t know what you are doing.

So when there is no isolating activity in yourself there is no isolating factor in the family. Right? Have you seen this? If you as the father, the mother, are not self-centred activity, with your ambitions, greeds, hates, insults, memory — you follow? — isolating yourself, and the wife isolating herself, then if you are not isolating and she is not isolating, the family is not isolated. Right? And that’s the most practical thing to do — to do it. But you don’t want to do it. And therefore you say tell me the most practical way — which is your own deception. By using the word ‘practical’ you think you have caught everything. The practical thing, sir, when you see something, to do it. When you see danger, as you see danger when you meet a cobra, you act. You don’t say, ‘What is the most positive thing to do?’ The same way, to see what you are doing, how you are isolating yourself, calling mine — my family, my house, my god, my belief, my nation, by my flag, my conclusion — it’s all isolation, separating yourself. And the wife does it, the children do it, the educator does it, the whole world does it. And you say, ‘How can I live most practically without family division?’ Right? There it is, sir — do it. Do it with beauty, with grace, without effort, with love and you will see there comes a movement of life in which there is no separation, though you may have a wife and children.

Q: Sir? By observing life as it is… [inaudible]

K: What is that? I haven’t heard, sir, it is not very clear.

Q: By observing life as it is, without any… [inaudible]

K: Now, just a minute, please, there are four people telling me. I hear…

Q: By seeing life as it is, he finds he becomes indifferent.

K: By seeing life as it is, he says he becomes indifferent — is that it?

Q: Yes.

K: What, by observing life as it is, you become indifferent?

Q: Yes.

K: Can you become indifferent?

Q: Physically, our action goes on — physical action goes on because we are living in this society, civilised society.

K: Sir, you know what you are saying? By observing life, your life, the daily life that you are living, you become indifferent to it?

Q: Yes. Psychologically, yes.

K: Can you become indifferent to your own suffering, to your own pleasure, to your own nightmare of a life, to your own sorrows? You become indifferent, that means you become callous? Psychologically you become indifferent to your own psyche, to your own thoughts, to your own…? Sir, you are using words that you don’t know what you are saying. When the house is burning, do you say my house which is burning, you are indifferent? No, sir. The difficulty is we want to give significance to life, meaning to life, and having no meaning, you say it is stupid to live this way. Therefore you begin to invent a new significance, and that is what breeds indifference — not the living, not the observing, not the intensity of pain and pleasure and sorrow.

Sirs, you don’t have to ask questions of the speaker. All that you have to do is to observe your life. Watch it. You cannot become indifferent to it. When you have a toothache, you don’t become indifferent. So watch it, learn. And there is so much to learn — not accumulate. The moment you accumulate there is a great deal to learn. But when you are not accumulating there is movement and therefore there is only a movement of learning, learning, learning. And therefore freedom from accumulation.

Right, sir.