Public Talk 4, New Delhi, 18 November 1965

Krishnamurti:

i

There is a learning which comes from the very acting, from the very doing; not having learnt and then doing, but in the very doing is the learning and the acting. And to learn from all our misery, from the innumerable frustrations, from conflict within and without, we don’t seem to be able to learn so as to bring about a radical revolution in ourselves. And it seems to me it is imperative that there should be this learning from the very doing, and therefore there is no pattern or authority which tells you what to do. I do not know if you have read that they’re experimenting in America in factories because they want greater production. And when you keep doing… when the man does the same thing over and over and over again, it gets monotonous and it doesn’t produce much more; whereas if he learns in the very act of production, in the very act of doing, then he produces more.

And though we have suffered for millennia, both inwardly and outwardly, we don’t seem to be capable of learning. And it indicates — does it not? — that we are not tremendously interested in living, in living freely, totally, in living a life without conflict, without sorrow. We do not want to know the structure of sorrow or the nature of fear. We just accept it or we adjust ourselves to it and we put up with anything — unless of course it gives a great deal of physical pain, then we go to a doctor or something or other. But we accept psychological pain.

And it seems to me that fear is one of our major problems. Because a mind that is fearful, timid, anxious is incapable of clear thinking. It lives in a darkness; it has various forms of neurosis, various forms of contradictions. And most of us, if we are at all aware that we are frightened, that there is fear, we either escape from it, run away, as far away from it as we can, or we submit to it; we’ll accept it and live within that shadow. We do not know how to deal with fear because we have lived with fear for millennia. And because we do not know the nature of fear and how to resolve it, we turn to religion, to drink, to aggressiveness, to violence and so on.

So one may have fear of different kinds, conscious as well as unconscious. And to be rid of fear totally, not partially, requires the investigation and the understanding of fear; not developing a courage but the understanding of fear, which is much more important than creating resistance against fear, which is courage. We are afraid of losing a job, we are afraid of darkness, we are afraid of death, we are afraid of public opinion, we are afraid of so many things, and we live with this fear.

Now, one can listen to what is being said, and mere words, intellect, cannot possibly solve this fear, nor words. What one has to do is to apply, come directly into contact with fear and not escape. Because religions throughout the world have offered man an escape from the final fear of death. They have given him hope in the hereafter in different forms. Religions have tried to tame man, civilise him, make him more humane, but they have not… religions have not been able to stop wars. As we said the other day, there have been fourteen thousand and more wars, two and a half wars every year, throughout the world. And we haven’t learned to stop wars. And religions have said: ‘Don’t kill. Love your neighbour. Be kind, be gentle. Think of another.’ And we haven’t done that either. Religions have become merely rituals, like big corporations, without any meaning.

And it is absolutely necessary for human beings to have that religious mind; not the religions of belief, dogma, church, rituals, but a religious mind that is totally unafraid. And a mind that is unafraid is always alone; not isolated but alone. It is only the mind that’s frightened, anxious, guilty, greedy, envious that is always seeking company, afraid of being alone. And it is only the religious mind that is capable of being totally alone because it is totally free from all fear.

And we are going to talk over together, this evening, this question of death. Because that is what most of us, though we try to avoid it, though we don’t want to think about it, though we treat it as an unpleasant thing to be put away, to be side-tracked; or because we are frightened of it, we have beliefs — beliefs in resurrection, in a continuity, immortality or reincarnation — but those beliefs does not solve the problem of fear. Scientists are saying that man can live indefinitely. They will probably find ways and means to prolong human life, but such prolongation does not solve the problem of fear.

And a society, a human being that has not solved this problem of death lives a very superficial life. Because if there is death, an annihilation, a destruction, a coming to an end, then one lives as one can through life, miserably, anxiously, and therefore life has no meaning; life becomes a meaningless thing without much significance, which is what is happening in the modern world. And many civilisations have tried to solve this problem of death. And because we are not capable of understanding it, we try to invent theories which will be satisfactory, which will give us comfort. So if we may this evening, we’d like to talk about this, talk over together — together; that is, you and I are going to think over together, investigate, search out, commune with each other — over this question of fear, death and love and something much greater, beyond all religions, which is creation.

And as we said the other day, communion with one another over a problem of this kind does not mean that you and I agree, that you should agree with the speaker, or disagree. This is too vast a problem to be categorised, to be classified. And to inquire into something of this nature demands, on your part, a great deal of searching inquiry, not acceptance, not denial. It requires intelligence; not clever, cunning, dialectical reasoning of opinions but, rather, you and I together take a journey into this enormous problem of life and death. And we cannot possibly take a journey together if there is not the vitality, the energy, the intensity to search out and discover for oneself the truth of this matter. This energy, this intensity, this vitality comes not by gathering energy but through the very act of investigation there is energy; through the very act of inquiring, energy comes.

But for most of us we think energy must first be gathered, accumulated through various means and then, from that energy, proceed. What we are saying is quite the opposite: that energy to inquire comes through search, through asking, through demanding, through questioning, doubting, not accepting. We’re not accepting a political formula or a religious formula, not accepting authority of anyone or any book. And then, out of that non-acceptance, which is a very positive action, out of that non-acceptance comes energy; and with that energy… and in that very asking is energy. So that’s what we are going to do together: we are going to take a journey, and you’re going to work as hard as the speaker. Because, for most of us, a talk of this kind is generally the work of the speaker and you become merely listeners. I’m afraid this evening you have to work as hard as the speaker.

We never come directly into contact with fear. Please follow this a little bit carefully. To be in contact with something is either to feel it with your senses, or not to have any psychological barrier between the fact and yourself. To come into contact means to touch… to come directly into touch with something, with facts, as I would touch that microphone. I cannot touch that if there is a hindrance, a barrier. That barrier may be words, the desire to escape, not to face facts, or intellectually rationalise the fears, or be unaware of the barriers, conscious or unconscious. These prevent directly coming into contact with a fact. And we are trying, this evening, to come into contact with the fact of fear; not intellectually, not what you should do or should not do about fear, but to come to know the nature of fear. Then that very coming into contact with something is the understanding of that fact. And therefore when you understand something, it has no longer the sting, the force.

We are afraid of many things. Naturally, we have not time nor the occasion to go into the many forms of fear, conscious as well as unconscious. Especially, unconscious fears are much more difficult to deal with. Conscious fears one can do something about, but unconscious fears are much more strong, more deep; which fears take the form in your sleep as dreams and so on, so on. I won’t go into all that now. But there is, for every human being, however long he may live, this question of death. Unless he understands it, comes directly into contact with this question, with this problem, our life is very superficial and will always remain superficial. And a superficial mind then tries to give significance to living, according to its conditioning, to its environment, to the society in which it has grown. Please do listen to this; give your attention, for a while.

So there is this question of fear with regard to death. Now, to understand this question, one has to be free from all belief, from all your ideas of reincarnation or resurrection or personal immortality. You don’t know anything about it. Even if you do, it is a tradition, a verbal conditioning. You have not come directly into contact with death or the fear of that fact. And as we said, it is imperative for a human being, living in this ugly, brutal, terrifying world, with its wars and antagonism, to understand this fact; otherwise our life becomes utterly meaningless: going to the office every day for the next thirty years, twenty years or forty years, repeating, repeating, repeating the same old stuff, breeding a few children and everlastingly being in conflict with oneself has no meaning whatsoever. The more intellectual you are, the more you are aware of the world, what is taking place, the more you try to run away from the superficiality, through drink, through various forms of amusements, or invent a philosophy or go back to some philosophy of some book. So what is necessary, if we would make life a significant thing in itself, a life that has a meaning, a life that is rich, full, complete, one has to understand this question of fear and death.

Now, we know what fear is: a reaction; a reaction to something of which we don’t know, of something which we have not direct experience or knowledge. We have seen death. It goes by every day. This war has brought it home to some. But a human mind, living, healthy, sane, not neurotic, such a mind has not come into contact with it. And it is only when you come directly into contact with something, then you see the meaning of it, you begin to understand the significance, the depth, the beauty of it.

So to understand this question of death, we must be rid of fear, which invents the theories of afterlife or immortality or reincarnation. So we say, those in the East, say that there is reincarnation, there is a rebirth, a constant renewal going on and on and on and on, the soul, so-called soul. Now — please listen carefully — is there such thing? We like to think there is such thing; it gives us pleasure because that is something which we have said beyond thought, beyond words, beyond… it is something eternal, spiritual, that can never die, and so thought clings to it. But is there such thing as a soul, which is something beyond time, something beyond thought, something which is not invented by man, something which is beyond the nature of man, something which is not put together by the cunning mind? Because the mind sees such enormous uncertainty, confusion, nothing permanent in life — nothing — your relationship to your wife, to your husband, to your job — nothing is permanent. And so mind invents a something which is permanent, which it calls the soul. But since the mind can think about it — thought can think about it — therefore, as it can think about it, it is still within the field of time; naturally. If I can think about something, it is part of my thought. And my thought is the result of time, of experience, of knowledge. So the soul is still within the field of time.

Right? Please, we are not accepting or denying. I am not doing propaganda for some theory; which is too immature and childish. We are taking a journey of investigation; an investigation, which if you follow step-by-step, go into it very deeply, will bring you into contact with something which you’re afraid. So the idea of a continuity of a soul which will be reborn over and over and over again has no meaning because it is the invention of a mind, of a mind that is frightened, of a mind that wants… that seeks a duration through permanence, that wants certainty, because in that there is hope. So man clings to that, and therefore he must have many lives, everlasting business. That is, it matters immensely how you behave now — if you believe in reincarnation — because next life you’re going to pay for how you behave. But you’re not concerned with behaviour, which is righteousness. If you really believed in reincarnation, your acts, the way you think, the way you live, your callousness and indifference to everybody would disappear, because next life you will pay, you will suffer. But you don’t believe in all that; actually, you don’t. That’s just an idea, an idea which you think you… very spiritual, which is sheer nonsense. But the fact remains that there is the fear of death. And in the West it takes a different form: of resurrection, of a continuity in a different field of renewal.

So there is this question of fear, and of fear of something which we don’t know, which we call death. So we separate life, living, from death. We haven’t understood living nor have we understood death. Because to understand life means to enter into life, to come into contact with life; life being greed, envy, brutality, hate, war, greed, escape, the bestiality, the craving for power, position. That’s what we call life. That is the life you lead every day; whether you are a *sanyasi* or a businessman or an artist, there is a boiling going on inside, burning. And that we call life. And we have not understood this thing; we are not free of it; we are not free of our anxieties, guilt, anguishes, nor have we understood this enormous thing called death. So we have not understood living nor have we understood the enormous significance of dying. Now, if we begin to understand living — living, not battling, not being in conflict, not being tortured or torturing yourself to find God. A human being who tortures himself to find God, such torture is not worth it. You will never find God or whatever that is. By distortion you cannot find truth. You want a clear, sane, rational, healthy mind, not a tortured, twisted mind.

So one must be free, free from fear of life itself, free from your anxieties, from your conflicts, from your avarice, greed, envy — whether it is for money or for God, one must be free of that — then you come directly into contact with life. Then living is related to dying. Please follow this.

Surely, a man who has no love is always in despair, who is seeking authority, position, prestige, envious, callous; such a man is not living; he doesn’t know what life is. All he knows is the little mind; whether it is a politician or the *sanyasi* or the businessman or the artist, the little mind, the petty, little mind and its worries, that’s all he knows. And it is only when he is free of that pettiness, of his fears, then he will know what it is to live. And when he knows what it is to live, then he will know what it is to die. Because we have separated living from dying — dying being coming to an end, psychologically, physiologically — and we think we are living. And our living is sorrow. So unless there is an ending to sorrow, there is no understanding of death.

So one has to find out for oneself, not because somebody else says so. You have been… you are fed on other people’s discoveries, you are bound by tradition, by authority, by fear; you haven’t found out, as a human being, living in this world, tortured, suffering, how to end suffering. We know how to escape from suffering, through drink, through amusement, through sex, through going to temple, reading… — dozen ways we have; but we have never come into contact with it and end it. It’s only the mind that ends sorrow that can have wisdom. And it’s only when the mind that is free from sorrow can know what it means to love.

So our question then is: is it possible — not in some distant future — is it possible living in this world now, today, is it possible to be free of sorrow and come into contact with something which we don’t know, which we call death, which is the unknown? What we are afraid of is not the unknown but letting go of the known. Isn’t it? You’re not afraid of death, the ending, but you are afraid of losing what you have, what you know: your experiences, your family, your little pleasures, your knowledge, your technology, your… — you know? — the things that you know. And you say, ‘By Jove, I have learned so much, I know so much, and death comes, I shall lose everything.’ And that’s what you are frightened of, not the extraordinary nature of death. And what are you holding on to? The known. What is the known? Your family, your little house, the squalor of that house, the dirt of the street, the lack of beauty, the effort, the jealousies, the anxieties, the pettiness of the office, the boss, the… — you know? — that’s all you know, and that we are afraid to let go. So when you let that go, happily, easily, with grace and beauty — that is, to die to the known — then you will know what it is to die, so that you will know the unknown.

Now, please listen to this. Can you end immediately — not through time, not through gradual process, discipline, torturing yourself — can you end your fear immediately? That is really the question, not what will happen after death, but can you end a habit — sexual habit, psychological habits, physical habits — end them immediately? If you know you can end them, to end them is to be free of them; put an end to your worries, to your fears, to your greed, wanting to be powerful, strong… — you know? — a great shot. Because if you do not know how to end these petty things of life, the things that you know, to which the mind clings, then you will be living in a state of turmoil all the time, and therefore confused. And it is only the confused mind that is in sorrow, not the mind that thinks clearly, that comes directly into contact with facts.

So dying is the dying to the things that you know, not to the unpleasant things known but to the pleasant also. You would like to die, put aside, to the memories of pain, to the insults, but you like to keep the memories which are pleasant, which give you satisfaction. But to put an end to… to die to the pleasure as well as to the pain. And one can do it if you give your attention completely to every thought, to every feeling — attention, not contradiction; not say, ‘I don’t like it; I like it,’ just to give attention.

You know what it is to give attention to something? Attention is not concentration. When you concentrate, as most people try to do, what takes place when you are concentrating? You are cutting yourself off, resisting, pushing away every thought except that one particular thought or that one particular action. So your concentration breeds resistance, and therefore concentration does not bring freedom. Please, this is very simple if you observe it yourself. But whereas if you’re attentive, attentive to everything that is going on about you — attentive to the dirt, the filth of the street; attentive to the bus which is so dirty; attentive of your words, the gesture, the way you talk to your boss, the way you talk to your servant, to the superior and the inferior; the respect, the callousness of those below you; the words, the ideas; if you’re attentive to all that, not correct it, just to attend — then out of that attention, you can then know a different kind of concentration.

One is aware of all this, of the setting; you’re all sitting there; the noise of people, the people talking over there on the roof; and you’re all making… hushing them up, asking them not to talk, turning your head; to be aware of the various colours, the costumes, and yet concentration is going on. Such concentration is not exclusion; in that there is no effort. Whereas concentration demands effort. So if you give your attention totally — that is, with your nerves, with your eyes, with your ears, with your mind, with your brain, totally, completely — to understand fear, then you will see you can be instantly be free of it, completely. Because it’s only a very clear mind — not living in the darkness of fear or in the confusion of many wants — it is only such a clear, lucid mind that can go beyond death because it has understood living.

Living is not a battle, is not a torture; living is not something to be run away from to the mountains, to a monastery. We run away because living is a torture, an ugly nightmare. And if you give your attention to one thing totally, you will see. Out of that freedom you will know what love is. Because for most of us love has very little meaning. Because for most of us love is surrounded by jealousy, by hate. How can there be love when you compete with another in the office? Please listen. Without love, without this feeling of beauty, life naturally becomes utterly empty. And being empty, we seek the gods which are man-made; therefore, being empty, beliefs, dogmas, ritual become very important because we fill that emptiness with these tawdry affairs of things; tawdry affairs which have been put together by man. So if you would know what love is, there must be freedom from jealousy, from conflict, from the desire to dominate, the desire to be powerful; which means you must live peacefully to know what love is; not outside of life but actually every day.

Then there is one other important thing in our life, which is we do not know what creation is, because we are bound by authority. The word *authority* means the author, the one who originated something: an idea, a concept, a vision, a way of life thought-out or lived by another; he’s the originator of that; and we see that person living in a certain way, feeling, thinking in a certain way, and we want that, therefore we imitate that. Therefore that person or that idea, that concept, that ideal becomes the authority — the authority of tradition, the authority of your particular pet religion — and a mind that has authority, that is bound by authority, can never be in a state of creation. Because, you see, authority breeds fear; all that we are concerned is to be told what to do and we do it, technologically as well as psychologically. That’s why all these innumerable gurus exist in the world: because we are frightened. They know, you don’t know. They tell you what you should do — as the scientist, as the doctors — so you depend on authority.

Now, authority of law and the authority of fear are two different things. One has to obey the authority of law which says, ‘Keep to the left’ — when you are driving, go on the left side — that must be. You must pay your tax, you must buy a stamp if you go to post a letter and so on, so on, so on — law. But the authority set by a pattern of a society as what is the religious idea, the concept which has been established by tradition, as what is God, what is this and so on, so on, so on; the authority of religion, the sanctions of religion, which you blindly accept, or you think you have investigated but have not because you’re frightened. So authority in any form — psychologically — is the most destructive thing because then it makes you followers; then you follow, you don’t investigate, you don’t find out, you don’t search out and discover for yourself.

Because, after all, truth is something that cannot be given to you. You have to find it out for yourself. And to find it out for yourself, you must be a law to yourself, you must be a guide to yourself; not the political man that is going to save the world, not the communist, not the leader, not the priest, not the *sanyasis*, not the books. You have to live, you have to be a law to yourself, and therefore no authority, which means completely standing alone; not outwardly, but inwardly completely alone, which means no fear. And when the mind has understood the nature of fear, the nature of death and that extraordinary thing called love, when it has understood — not verbalised, not thought about but actually lived — then, out of that understanding, comes a mind that is active but completely still.

This whole process of understanding life, of freeing oneself from all the battles — not in some future, but immediately, giving your whole attention to it — all that is meditation. Not sitting in some corner and holding your nose and repeating some silly words, mesmerising yourself, that’s not meditation at all, that’s self-hypnosis. But to understand life, to be free from sorrow — actually, not verbally, not theoretically, but actually — to be free of fear and of death brings about a mind that is completely still. And all that is meditation. And it’s only a very still mind — not disciplined mind, a mind that has understood and therefore free — it’s only that still mind can know what is creation.

Because the word *God* has been spoiled. You can call it the other way, dog; it has no meaning any more. Hitler believed in God and your politicians believe in God; they destroy each other, kill each other, torture. There are those who torture themselves to find God. So it has no meaning anymore; it’s just a word. But to find out that something which is beyond time, you must have a very still mind. And that still mind is not a dead mind but tremendously active; anything that is moving at the highest speed and active is always quiet. It’s only the dull mind that worried about, anxious, fearful, such a mind can never be still. And it is only such a mind that’s still is a religious mind. And it is only the religious mind that can find out or be in that state of creation. And it is only such a mind that can bring about peace in the world. And that peace is your responsibility. Your responsibility, each one of us; not the politician, not the soldier, not the lawyer, not the businessman, not the communist, socialist, nobody. It is your responsibility: how you live, how you live your daily life. If you want peace in the world, you have to live peacefully; not hating, not being envious, not seeking power, not pursuing competition. Because out of that freedom from these, you have love. It is only a mind that is capable of loving will know what it is to live peacefully.